1.8 A Conversation with Cyndi Bringer and Ashleigh Worley
This week Jimmy speaks to Cyndi Bringer, a middle school theatre teacher in Illinois AND Ashleigh Worley, Director of Education at Luther Burbank Center of the Arts in California. These teachers bring us stories and experiences about special needs, exploratory rotations, and working in non-traditional theatre education careers and working with teaching artists.
Cyndi’s Recommended Resources
https://www.theatrefolk.com/drama_teacher_academy
Improv Ideas: A Book of Games and Lists by Justine Jones and Mary Ann Kelley
Ashleigh’s Recommended Resources
https://www.facebook.com/DramaNotebook/
Yardsticks: Child and Adolescent Development Ages 4-14 4th Edition by Chip Wood
JIMMY CHRISMON:
You're listening to episode eight of THED Talks with Jimmy Chrismon THED Talks is a podcast for theatre teachers and theatre education students. Hi, I'm Doctor Jimmy Chrismon theatre education professor at Illinois State University. Each week I want to bring you stories and interviews from experienced K12 theatre teachers and current theatre education majors as well as professors of theatre education that will warm your heart, renew your faith in teaching and provide resources to better your practice in your theatre classroom. Welcome to this week's episode. Thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate you listening. I am excited to bring you my first double feature of guests on the show. I have Cyndi Bringer who is a middle school teacher at Westfield Middle School in the western suburbs of Chicago and Ashleigh Worley, who is a director of education and community engagement at Luther Burbank Center for the Arts in Santa Rosa, California. Both of these fine educators reached out to me via email and expressed interest in talking with me about middle school work as well as their work working with theatre education programs in theatre companies and working with teaching artists. You can contact me by emailing me at thedtalkspodcast@gmail.com. If you're looking to talk with me to be on the show or if you have any feedback or suggestions for improving the podcast and some things you'd like to hear on it, please do not hesitate emailing me. You can always find our show archives and our transcripts of every episode as well as listings of each of my guest's recommended resources on www.thedtalks.com. I do hope you enjoy my conversations with Cyndi and Ashleigh. So, um, here we go. I am excited to welcome this morning on THED Talks Cyndi Bringer. She is a middle school teacher in the western suburbs of Chicago. So Cyndi, will you introduce yourself to us. Tell us a little bit about where you teach, how long you've been teaching, um, your program size, what you teach and uh, currently what you're working on with your students.
CYNDI BRINGER:
Okay. This is my 16th year at this school. I started here as a special ed educator and then two years in an opening opened in the exploratory program and I kind of raised my hand and I said, my Undergrad is in theatre, speech education and that principal at that time, let me develop my whole program. So I get to teach drama all day long. It is part of a exploratory rotation. They go through art, music, stem and drama. So everyone has to take me, which is good and bad depending on how things are going. Some kids are good with it and some kids aren't. It is my 16th year here and currently we are working on Shrek, the Musical Jr which opens next week.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Wonderful. Wonderful. How many kids do you have in that?
CYNDI BRINGER:
34, which is on the low end, but I've decided that since, um, Fortnite is necessary. That's number one competitor I Fortnite and Netflix, are my number one competitor,
JIMMY CHRISMON:
I understand. I uh, when I saw when I was in my undergrad and I was doing my very first clinical, I, uh, we were teaching a middle school after school program and I had this wonderful lesson about African storytelling and Lion King had come out recently and it was on, on Broadway and I was really excited about doing this lesson. I get in there and before I even say the first thing, this kid raises his hand and said, are you going to talk about Pokemon today? Because if you're not, I'm not listening. And my cooperating teacher was at the back of the room, excuse me, my, my university supervisor. And he just started laughing and threw his hands up and he was like, good luck. I understand that you're competing with things. Um, I am really interested in talking to you about, um, a little bit about your special ed experience and how that crosses over into what you do now.
CYNDI BRINGER:
Oh my God, it is, it is a perfect crossover. I just recently won an award last year for Heroes in the Classroom and I was nominated because of incorporating the kids with special needs that are, that are housed in our building, into the program both through the class and in the afterschool activities. It is just the perfect format. It works as drama itself. Diversifies between what people can do. You know, if you going to be Romeo you can be Romeo, but if you're going to be a rock you still have to be the best rock possible. So it all depends on where you are on and the whole thing. It just works really, really well with a lot of people and it and it gives the general body students a chance to work with kids with special needs. Right now in my eighth grade drama two class, I have totally nonverbal young man who's got a talking device and so it's kind of interesting cause we're doing improv right now and it's like it takes a few seconds in order to get the words out. But everyone's been working really well together and learning just how to, you know, make it work together.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
That is so, that is so cool. That was really awesome. Talk to me a little bit more about, um, the, the award that you won the Hero in the Classroom award.
CYNDI BRINGER:
It's my, what is she, she's the guidance counselor, social worker. She's a social worker here and it's through the Chicago Bears and the Cementra, um, company. So that you got, there were two teachers that one every home game. So they came to the school. That was a surprise. Um, I got an a jersey with my name on it and we got to go on the field at the game and my face was up on the jumbotron. We got $2,000 to use as needed. So I, I bought a new spotlight and a new wireless microphone, so
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Congratulations. That's fantastic.
CYNDI BRINGER:
It was super cool.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
I, as I was scrolling through your, your school's website, I saw pictures of the, from The Bully Plays. Was that a show that you,
CYNDI BRINGER:
We did it last year. It was some of the best stuff I've ever done. You're always worried about how can you push the envelope in middle school, because we did cover sexting and we had suicide in there and that the way to do it was that you were just up front with everyone gave the script to the administration, gave the script to the parents even before the kids auditioned. I go here and then the kids who are in the very sensitive roles, it's like I want signatures from the parents that say, you know that we're dealing with this. It was super cool because usually we do like a whole school production and people saw it, but instead what we did is we had pushed in each grade level and made the chairs as close as possible to the stage and we just use the tiny little stage in the front because I wanted my students to be uncomfortable about what was going on. And then the nice thing about that is that we were able to take it on the road and we actually went to a, um, three neighboring middle schools and did it for groups there. Which was something I don't think I've ever done before, but it was, it was kind of cool that we were able to do it.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
That's wonderful. I love that. I love that whole book of plays. One of my, my seniors actually directed that at a local high school back in the fall and I've directed several of excerpts from it. Um, so that's some wonderful material in there. And then, uh, I was really surprised to see a middle school doing it, but I think that's really wonderful.
CYNDI BRINGER:
Yeah. You know, that there's a lot of different levels. There were some I couldn't even think about doing, but we, there was enough that we did like four, four or five of them.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
But still those topics are very relevant to those kids too.
CYNDI BRINGER:
It is.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Yeah. Um, so, so talk to me a little bit about what you think and what you see as the greatest need in your students right now in general
CYNDI BRINGER:
As far as drama is concerned, or life?
JIMMY CHRISMON:
um, life and then how we as drama teachers can help them with that.
CYNDI BRINGER:
Okay. We've been a one to one school for four years now and these children have their devices attached to them even though they're supposed to be often out of sight. I've, I don't fight with them because in my mind that phone can help them. You know, we can look up stuff, we can do stuff quickly as possible, as long as it's used correctly. My fear is that they're ever going to record something that will jeopardize someone in the future. And it does necessarily always talk to them about that. It's like, cause we do crazy stuff in drama room, it's fine, it happens. But I don't want four years from now when you're applying for college or four year, eight years from now when you're applying for a job, anything that happened in my classroom to negatively affect you, try to make them understand that everything's out there forever.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
That being said, they only know how to communicate this way. So drama is a class where it's like, guys, we have to talk to each other. I do have my green room for the afterschool play. There is no technology allowed at all. Um, so it's a one time and they've learned, they've learned to play cards together, they've learned and you know, to have face to face conversations that they really don't get anymore. So that's really, really hard. One thing that has really fallen down recently is no one knows how to memorize because they don't have, they don't do rote memorization of dates or math facts or anything anymore. So it's a skill that has to be taught in my class and to them that's making my class a hard class. My class is no longer the fun one out of the rotations. It's like, oh Mrs Bringer your, this is a hard class cause I having struggle memorizing, even though what I tell them, if you just run it every day in class, you don't even do it at home. And they usually get it down. So you know, the kids just being kids, like the whole bullying thing, we're, we've got a pretty good school where that doesn't happen as much, but still it's like people there that you can be bullied instantly. It's not like some that someone writes it on the bathroom wall and maybe five people see it. It's just instantly out there. So, and that's one of the things that I try to teach. If the only thing I've taught my kids in three years in drama is that they make everyone feel safe and treat everyone equally. Then I've done my job. We'll Cyndi, tell me some of your favorite stories from your career. They can be funny stories, horror stories, most meaningful moments. Uh, anything that's impacted you as a teacher and a person.
CYNDI BRINGER:
Well, going back again to the phone, so we're talking 10, 12 years ago, my first experience of a phone on stage was of a young boy and I still he allows me to tell this story. He was a Mr, Darling in Peter Pan and he was in the dog cage and all of a sudden the phone rings. And that was unheard of at that time. And it was just like, excuse me, I have to take the phone call. It was his dad. It's like, No!. So we learned that. So that's always permissions like that. Um, the thing about teaching middle school, it takes a long time for my children to grow. So it's just now with being here this many years, my first group of drama people, I'm now finally out in the world making themselves into things. So I have, I have a, there's this great group that just graduated. I have a kid who's doing a lot of the, like the Chicago Justice shows. I have, um, a young man who was my Scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz, who is a swing dancer and Hamilton in Broadway. How cool is that? This tiny little town here. Again, I had nothing to do with it, but it's just super cool that these kids do it. So everyday I show my husband, I go, look at this is what so and so is doing. And so one of my students, um, it was a white coat award or whatever. And so I showed my husband, I go, look, Danny He's a doctor now. And he goes, oh, what show is he on? No, he's an actual doctor now, not playing a doctor. So and speaking of my husband, you know, because in doing this your, your significant other to support you, whatever. Um, my favorite story with him is what he's been willing to do for me is I needed a shield at the beginning and again, budgets were low, so he actually took the lid off of our, one of our metal garbage cans and put it under his car and rolled over the edges so that it would be flat, but still have the handle on it so that we could have a shield for a play.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
That's wonderful. That's wonderful. Involve everybody, I think for me that's one of the coolest things for me too, is it seeing where my students go and what they become. And what I love about when I was, um, doing a little bit of research about you before, before we talked your, your class website, if I'm not mistaken, talks about how your goal is to teach those 21st century skills to teach those life skills and how to be good people and how to work with other people in the world. Um, so talk to me a little bit about, um, how you weave that philosophy into what you do in the middle school classroom.
CYNDI BRINGER:
Okay. Sixth grade, we're just trying to get them to not be afraid to be up in front of each other because no matter what class they're going to take or what job they have in the future, they're going to have to talk to people. And again, so just trying to work that. Um, I am a very mean teacher and I always like to say that, but you know, understand that the looseness of the drama class has to have very big structure. So I know normally you shouldn't have, and I might be changing it, but I still have a basic 10 rules that have to be followed and anyone in the classroom can call a rule out on someone. It's not just me. I try to make them understand it's our classroom. I am only one person and it only have one eyes. And you know, it's big enough that if things are going on, so the respect of each other, because you can't have expect anyone to get up and perform if they know they're gonna be made fun of. So it's really, really hard to try to teach them, you're in this situation and this is how you have to act. It's so, and hopefully that, that a lot of carry on over to the future. Um, I know I'm not making actors or directors or whatever, but I can make people A. Be nice people and B. They could be theatre goers, how do teach them how to be. Cause if we don't get these young people in seats, I'm worried about where the future is going. So I want them to understand, you know, live theatre is something that they want to do and, and how to behave. Again, it's something that has to be taught. They, you know, kids just don't know how to sit, you know, they Whoo whoo whoo or they talk back. We just, this is the fourth quarter for the new rotation and they're just doing little introductory speeches. Just try to get to know each other and, and people are just speaking back. It's like wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. This is not how this works. Like pretend this is like a TV screen and you can see us cause we have to be able to do it. Yeah. No I just, it's rule number six. This is the one that everyone knows and, and I can't even take credit for it because I got it off the Internet many, many years ago. But it says never ever intentionally hurt someone else. This means no hitting, pushing, etc. But it also means no name calling or teasing. And the rule is drama class can only work if everyone feels safe. But I tell them life only works if everyone feels safe. So that's my, that's my main philosophy. You know, just trying to get people comfortable, get people to work together and it's like well I don't like this kid. And it's like, do you think I like everyone I work with? It doesn't matter. You have to learn to talk to each other, work together and then move on. The thing is oh, last year at the end of the quarter, we were, um, I did a combo with the music teacher because we had five snow days this year, so we had extra time. So we were tying in, um, west side story with Romeo and Juliet and every time someone started to sing though, oh, it's like, okay guys, we're right now, I have to teach you about body language. We're putting on a musical in a few weeks. If you do that, every time my kids start to sing, you know how devastating that would be. So keep that inside, have tht feeling, own that feeling, that's fine. You just can't do it with your bodies or your voice. So again, little baby things to try to teach them and make them fit into the world in the future.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Well, I appreciate you teaching those skills. When I was in the classroom, I was constantly having to do that. Um, even with the high schoolers that I was working with, teaching them how to be good audience members and how to be good theatre patrons and, and consumers of what we do on stage. I was recently in New York and I wanted to go see Frozen. I wanted to see the, the costume change during Let it Go. So we got really, really good price tickets to go see it. And I knew going to that show that they were going to be a bunch of kids in the audience and I am completely okay with that. And I'm, I love when kids interact with the show and I mean in a, in a, in a the right way. Then there was this little row of middle school girls sitting beside me and they had been chatting back and forth the whole time with each other. Um, and then we got to Let it Go. And then they all whipped out their phones and started texting each other and talking. It was just, it was the most horrible thing. And, uh, the woman in front of us eventually turned around and she was like, you realize you were being very rude, right? And eventually security had to come and talk to them and get them quiet. But it's that kind of stuff that like I get when you're interacting, but when you're, when you don't know how to behave and you don't know how to be good citizens with the rest of the world in those experiences. So thank you for doing what you're doing with.
CYNDI BRINGER:
I know, but don't you think that drama lends itself to that? The whole idea of putting yourself into somebody else's shoes.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Yes, absolutely.
CYNDI BRINGER:
And doing that, that this is, this is a safe place. Like going back to the Bully Plays, it's a safe place to put yourself there today that maybe either either one of the actors in the show or someone who saw it would think twice about doing, you know, what happened.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Absolutely. Absolutely. What are, uh, excuse me. Um, how do you, you've had a really nice long, wonderful career so far. How do you take care of yourself personally, emotionally and physically so that when you go to your kids are the best you that you, that you, that you can be
CYNDI BRINGER:
The thing is I take best care of myself in the summer cause I take all these like park district classes and things like that that I wish I can do during the school. Middle school versus high school doing, I only do two shows plus the talent show after school. So really and truly I, my outside time is not that late. Like we're only running till six o'clock, which is late for, you know, 10 year olds but still still have somewhat to time to do at home. I always call going to theatre is professional development. I don't know, I've never treated my say my tickets to see if they would pay for it. But that's always important that I can go, what else do I do for myself? I read Which I, which I try to do a lot of now that you know, I'm getting a closer towards retirement, trying to figure this all out. I don't know. It's just you just have to, you just have to breathe. I do a little, I'm not very good at meditating cause you know the brain is always going that's how drama teachers work. It's the only way that you can do 10 jobs at one time and still function. But I just do, do, try to rest and relax and realize that sometimes it's okay to not do. I always try to hold my kids have to do something really, really well. But at some point you have to say, okay we can't go any further. Um, we've got the stomach flu going through our school right now. So like I had six kids out and my Lord Farquad, was out all last week and he came back and it's like, you know what? School's important. Play is important, but your health is more important to go home. We can, we can do without you again. So hopefully I that I would do the same for myself. You know, I, I didn't, but we try.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Well I do hope he gets feeling better and everything goes well for you. Next week I have two final questions for you. What is a resource that you're currently using that other teachers absolutely must know about because it's so important to you?
CYNDI BRINGER:
I tell you this, I'm where I found you through the Drama Theatre Academy that the Facebook page is worth the money, let alone everything else that's going on. I think just the interaction. Theatre teachers were alone, you know, for the most part in our buildings to have a place where instantly we can help each other with ideas and things like that has been really, really well. As far as a book that would be concerned because we really don't use textbooks. I have this old Improv book that I've been using but it is so old that some of the things that they talked about in the future have actually happened, like watch phones and things like that. Then they talk about it, but it's just improv ideas of book of games and list. So it just, you know, it's one of the few books that I use just to get some more concrete ideas
JIMMY CHRISMON:
And your parting words of wisdom to new teachers coming into this profession.
CYNDI BRINGER:
Have Fun. Set your bar high because the kids will always reach it because if you set it too low, you'll get mediocre. I think that's what you gotta do.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Well, Cyndi, thank you so much for talking to me this morning. I know got a lot going on there this morning and you've got to get ready for your day, but it really means a lot that you took some time out to talk to me and uh, I do wish you all the best next week with Shrek Junior all the best with the rest of your year wrapping up.
CYNDI BRINGER:
Thank you very much sir.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Thank you Cyndi so much for talking with me. I, I know you were very busy and you were catching me before your day got going at school. So, um, I, I do hope Shrek went well and I do hope, um, you continue to do amazing things at Westfield there. So thank you again for your time. Now we're gonna shift gears a little bit and you're going to hear my conversation with Ashleigh Worley. Again, she's the director of education and community engagement at Luther Burbank Center for the Arts in Santa Rosa, California. Here's my conversation with Ashleigh. I'm excited to welcome to THED Talks this week. Ashleigh Worley. She is a director of education and community engagement at Luther Burbank Center for the Arts in Santa Rosa, California. I do know that Ashleigh was a classroom teacher before moving into this position. Um, so Ashleigh, why don't you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your journey that got you to what you're doing now.
ASHLEIGH WORLEY:
Sure. Well, I went to Undergrad for theatre education. It was an interesting path that even got me there cause I knew I wanted to do theatre, but I didn't think I wanted to be a teacher. Teaching was the way to have a stable career, which is, you know, a little funny now. But with that in mind, you know, decided to go after a scholarship called the Teaching Fellows Scholarship when I was still in high school and receive that.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
I was a Teaching Fellow.
ASHLEIGH WORLEY:
Oh, how funny.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
And where did you end up going?
ASHLEIGH WORLEY:
UNC Charlotte.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
That's where I went,
ASHLEIGH WORLEY:
yeah,
JIMMY CHRISMON:
I'm sorry. Continue please.
ASHLEIGH WORLEY:
Oh, I love it. Yeah. So I got the Teaching Fellows Scholarship and I never actually intended to teach. I went in my freshman year fully intending to get the degree, figure out how to pay off the scholarship afterwards. And somewhere around freshman, sophomore year being in the classroom, I realized I actually did kind of like teaching, so I ended up wanting to do more of that. Uh, so I entered the classroom at the middle school level. After graduating I worked at an International baccalaureate middle school in Statesville. Uh, in middle school was a little bit of a stretch. It wasn't, you know, a perfect fit, but you know, I did love it. And middle schoolers are quirky and delightful and strange. Uh, and then a high school position opened up in my district. So I had made the transition to the high school. I spent a few years there, uh, and eventually realized that I wanted to do more. I wanted to have a greater impact than I could do within my own classroom, so that I wasn't sure what that looked like yet. But I thought the, the nonprofit world was where I wanted to head and was looking on the east coast, looking around the DC area, around, uh, New York area. Uh, and the perfect job kind of opened up in California in Marin County. And I had never considered California, but why not? So I packed up and left and spent three and a half years at Marin Theater Company, which is a professional regional theatre, uh, just seven, eight miles north of San Francisco. And very recently within the last six months or so, moved to the Luther Burbank Center as director of education there,
JIMMY CHRISMON:
what's that like for you now?
ASHLEIGH WORLEY:
Yeah, so
JIMMY CHRISMON:
I was reading you the website and checking out other things that you do in the programs you offer and it is massive.
ASHLEIGH WORLEY:
It is a little daunting. Um, you know, the theatre company that I had worked for previously had some pretty expansive programming, but you know, I was very, I was able to stay really hands on with things and we, we set up some really great programs to provide ongoing training and support for the folks who've worked with us. And at LBC because of the size of the programming. And you know, we were working with 40,000 plus students a year. I really have to rely a little heavier on my phenomenal staff to do that and give them the resources and guidance to make sure that our, our contract staff who are teaching artists are getting the best support that they can. Uh, we have professional development programs for teaching artists and also for classroom teachers. We work with Kennedy Center training teaching artists through our partners in education, uh, partnership with the Kennedy Center where we fly them out from all over the country to come and help train teachers and arts integration techniques. So the idea is not just art teachers have the ability to, uh, present students with opportunities to create art and you know, arming classroom teachers, maybe that the fourth grade teacher who has to teach a little bit of everything with the skills to integrate art into the work they're already doing really opens up doors that might not be possible elsewhere for the students. So they have other avenues to explore the art form.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
So how has your, how was your experience that you had in the classroom and you're training for that? How did that translate over into what you're doing now?
ASHLEIGH WORLEY:
It was actually kind of interesting, uh, leaving the classroom I thought really long and hard about whether or not to go back to school for a masters. And it was, it really boiled down to can I break into this field that I want to at the level I want to or not? Because most of the time they do expect you to have a master's degree. But my teaching experience was something that most people in my position do not have. Being someone who has spent years in the classroom with kids getting the training that classroom teachers are equipped with, not only through the degree program but the ongoing, uh, training you get in the school district means that I have a level of understanding of childhood development and how lessons should be crafted and how you should put together a curriculum in a way that a lot of people in the nonprofit arts world might not have. Usually the path they take to a position like this as their professional artists who then become educators versus educators who are artists. And, and it's something we see a lot in the teaching artist world as well. Those folks who come in on a contract basis to assist with classroom teachers and their work. It's a lot of them are professional artists who are, who are doing this education work on the side to kind of supplement their career. And it's, it's really imperative that we provide them the fundamental training that a lot of educators kind of take for granted in terms of classroom management and how to work with standards and how to write a lesson plan and there are things that we have to yeah, uh, annually go back to the basics with each new cohort of people we work with to make sure that they really understand the fundamentals of what it takes when you're working in a classroom setting versus, you know, an afterschool program or something of that sort. So, so coming from that educator's background has been a huge help. And, you know, I think when I was interviewing the first time around for the theatre company, it was, you know, I have a roundabout way of experience. It's definitely not your typical experience, but I think I have a lot to offer and it has served me well. So I really, when I'm working with interns and younger college students, um, you know, I always encourage them to think outside the box and where an arts education degree can take you. Cause it's not always just the classroom. There's other opportunities out there.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
And that's what I always tell my students that because I know actually when I interviewed at ISU, that was one of the questions that the students had for me was how, how would I bring into my methods classes, working with those students who didn't necessarily want to go into a classroom but still want to work with an education program at a theatre or be a teaching artist. And so I, I think, um, I was really excited to talk to you because I know that your perspective is, is common. It's out there. Um, however, theatre ed programs don't always gear what they're doing towards, um, people who do what you do. So I really appreciate you reaching out to me about that. I do want to ask, so I'm assuming, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but you are in charge of or have at least have a hand in, uh, the hiring of those teaching artists. So what do you look for?
ASHLEIGH WORLEY:
Most of the time, with the very rare exception, I am looking for someone who shows a passion for children and education, not someone who's looking for a chance to just do their art. Um, which sounds like a given, but I'm also pretty convinced that the bay area teaching artists culture is different than anything else that I've ever seen. There are a lot of professional artists out there just looking for side gigs. And those are not the people I gravitate towards. There are exceptions to that rule. There are professional artists to do their work really well. But for the most part, the folks who come to me and go, I'm not looking to fill time. I'm looking to make a career out of this or I'm looking to make a step forward in my career are the people who I'm interested in working with folks too, have the tendencies of lifelong learners. I don't care how old you are, I don't care what experience you have, but I care that you are hungry to learn and you're willing to try a different perspective which also comes from that educator background. You know I don't, I think I know everything and I think every person that I'm in the room with has the opportunity to teach me something and teach us all something. And those are the folks I want to work with because our work style is very collaborative, is very process based. And along the way we're going to want to have sit down meetings where we talk about your progress and how we can help improve. And on the flip side, how we can help you improve as well. What can we do better? So you know, you as a teaching artist can do your job to the best of your ability.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
What has been your favorite experience so far since leaving the classroom and doing what you're doing now?
ASHLEIGH WORLEY:
That's a really good question. I think one of the most exciting things that I've been doing, and you know, goodness, there's, there's been a lot of things, but we in the bay area, in San Francisco Bay area, there are quite a number of large theatre organizations. Berkeley Rep is here, ACT is here. And then there are a slew of other organizations who are, you know, either mid size or smaller professional companies. And a couple of us kinda got together, I think it was two, three years ago now. And we said, you know what? It is a little ridiculous. We're all here trying to work towards the same purpose and we're kind of working in our own bubbles and that needs to stop. So we started meeting on a semi regular basis. Granted, we're all, you know, crazy busy as always. And we started planning and talking about how can we share our resources and our teaching artists and our trainings so that we can all reap the benefits of, of the strengths of each other's programs. And that started with a two falls. So I guess 2017 we hosted our first annual teaching artists open call and a bunch of different organizations in the area got together and promoted this event hosted by one of our organizations. And we invited all teaching artists theatre, teaching artists in the community to come together to do a five minute demo lesson of, you know, show us your best work, show us how you like to work. And all of the administrators in the room became the students. And so they essentially auditioned for us 30 companies or so. And then we provided a professional development training afterwards. So I think the first time we did it, we had probably around 40 folks show up and we could compare notes and talk about, Oh, I've worked with this person, here are their strengths and you know, kind of work together on making sure that we are creating a viable ecosystem for the artists in our field. And it is something that has started to continue, and we've been doing it every semester, we'll do it in the fall and the spring. We just did one in March and you know, this is the second complete year of it. And we finally said, you know what, we need to get better organized. You know, we're doing this thing unofficially. We don't really have a, a name or a group. And so this summer we're hosting, uh, at my organization, we're hosting a retreat for those folks who have been involved since the beginning, uh, to kind of, to get organized, to come up with an agenda and some plans for how we want to start sharing professional development and what we want our teaching artists trainings and our open calls to look like. So it's really cool to see the kind of power in networking that happens when a group of like minded artists get together. And I just loved the collaborative spirit of, you know, these folks from all over the bay coming together for this common purpose.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
What do you find are the biggest challenges of your, of your job that you're currently in?
ASHLEIGH WORLEY:
Goodness, you know, in the nonprofit world it's this, it's the same as being a classroom teacher in terms of, you know, money's always a struggle for sure, you know, uh, depending on the sides of the school or the organization. The funding situation can look a little different. I am fortunate to be at a company that values the work we do in a way that I've never seen another nonprofit arts organization that was not completely education focus, do. Education is the, is in the mission of the organization, which is super cool because we're actually a road house. So we have performers like Enrique Iglesias and Willie Nelson and all sorts of folks coming through our doors almost every night. But there's also this amazing, huge robust education program and community engagement program serving all of these folks all over our county and beyond.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
I know you love what you're doing now from, from what you've told me. Um, do you ever miss the classroom?
ASHLEIGH WORLEY:
I do. I do. And I think the biggest thing is the relationships. Working at, at the high school level. I, I found my fit, you know, I loved working with high school age students and you know, in the arts you have the opportunity to forge relationships in a different way than if you were teaching a math class or an English class and it yeah, because of the emotion that naturally comes out with the work you're doing, the vulnerability that it takes to create art, These relationships are naturally forming and I, I have stayed in touch with my former students through the years. This is actually going to be the first summer that one of my former students will not be flying across the country to California to come work with me. Three summers in a row. I had students out, uh, here who were in college or have just graduated, uh, working as my summer interns at the theatre company that I was working at. You know, they, they will always be my kids. I will always have a special place in my heart for them. And while I still have the opportunity to teach and interact with students, there's, there's nothing like working with the same kiddos every day and being able to build something up over a couple of years. That's a little different than where I am now. And I don't get to teach as often. It's, it's kind of the rare treat when I can, most of the time I just get to watch other people do it and give them feedback on how they do it.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Yeah. Before I left South Carolina, uh, to move up here, I did have a, um, a student who went through a theatre ed program and he started teaching. Um, and that was really cool for me because I got to, um, I taught him in high school and then I taught his final methods class before student teaching at the university. So I think it's really cool when you stay in touch and you see them succeed. And, and for me, it was following in the path that, that I did and just how proud I am and seeing what he's doing now. So I totally get that. And it's, that's really cool that they, they've, they fly out to work with you.
ASHLEIGH WORLEY:
Yeah. I remember the first summer I got messages from a couple of the parents and they were like, take care of my babies. It's also really humbling that, that they put that much, the families are putting that much trust in me because even if they're out of high school and they're in college, you know, you're still young. So that's, that's a big thing to do is definitely all the way to the west coast and spend two months there.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
I know you, your, your training prepped you to go into the classroom and you can answer this from both lenses if you, if you want to. Um, as far as what did you wish you had known going into a classroom and then also what did your training, what did you wish your training had done for you, for your current position?
ASHLEIGH WORLEY:
I'm gonna say first for my current position, learning the financial side of even being in a classroom setting, it was nonexistent for me in school. It was very much a figure it out as I go. In terms of where our funding sources coming from. And then when I moved as a classroom teacher where are the funding sources coming from, how to work with parent boosters, you know, how do I work with the budget I have and then moving into nonprofit where I might have gone from a budget of a couple thousand dollars a year or whatever was in our bank account to, uh, my current budget is over $1 million. With that drastic jump, you know, what are, how do I, how do I manage that? How do I make those intelligent decisions when I, and, and how do you juggle the funding for so many different programs at the same time and make those hard decisions about what needs to get take priority along those lines. Grant writing and, and working with foundations as a source of income would have been huge. But there were all things that I was able to kind of figure out as I went. And Luckily I had some really great folks to work with who helped me, uh, along the way to figure that out. In terms of what I wish I knew going into classroom teaching. I think a little bit more on working with parents because you know managing parents and parent expectations can be really hard and really draining and especially as a young teacher where you may be judged by your age, it can be a little intimidating sometimes to have to either advocate or defend yourself or your choices to a parent who does not agree with them, especially in a situation where you don't have an administrative support. So it did become a learn as you go kind of thing and it is, it can be really scary. And I think dealing with the administration and dealing with parents or my two least favorite things about being a classroom teacher,
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Do you find that dealing with parents and then I just administration as well with what you're doing now, do you find any of that transfers over?
ASHLEIGH WORLEY:
Oh yeah, absolutely. And you know, to clarify I'm not, I'm absolutely not saying that it's all bad all the time. It is just those, there occasionally difficult folks in the world and we all have to deal with them. Yeah, you in terms of administration, in my current position, I am so blessed that that is not a problem. I have had difficulties with administration. If they do not fully understand or agree with the choices you're making or they do not see the value and support your programs. It can be incredibly difficult. There are nonprofits out there who see their education programs as more of a cash cow or the community engagement flag. They can fly around and saying, look, all the good we do as they really focus on the one aspect of the art that they want to focus on. I'm so grateful that that is not the case where I am and with parents too because of our programs, the programs my company offers is almost all free of charge. We do free summer camps. We do free year round programs for students. Our residencies are moving to an all free model in schools. Our professional development training is is so cheap. It might as well be free and there are scholarships for all these programs. So with being a service based organization, we don't have too many folks. We don't have conflicts with parents too often because of that. Um, I have worked in nonprofits that were more of a, uh, profit based educational programs where 500 bucks a week for summer camp kind of places. And when, when folks are paying for or a an experience there, they're going to approach things differently. And so in those cases, absolutely managing parents and parent expectations and conflicts and questions and sometimes those wonderful helicopter parents we all know and love, uh, it's definitely a skill that transfered.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Well I think that's amazing that you all offer that. That's, I've, I've not heard of that before and I think that is so phenomenal and I'm not, I don't want to dig into your finances or anything, but like do you get your most of your funding from grant support and writing those grants?
ASHLEIGH WORLEY:
Yeah, my position, I have to work very, very closely with our development department who handles, uh, bringing in money for the organization. And we kind of meat a couple times a month and look over, here's what's out there that we know of right now. What do we want to go after? What do you think would be the best use of our time and how should we frame up proposals to go after this money? So what program is best geared towards this grant? We also work very closely with our board and individuals in our community. I am fortunate to live in the middle of wine country and so Sonoma Valley has a lot of, of very affluent folks as well as a lot of folks who need. So we, we definitely leverage that community support to keep our program going. What does make us unique is where we're one of the few organizations of this size who is in a unaffiliated area. So we're not receiving money from, from the city or whatnot as a performing arts center. And we're also not affiliated with something like a university or a higher education organization. So that that means we're really not seeing much, if at all, any in the way of government funding and it makes it even harder to do what we do. So we, we have to very aggressively go after, uh, funding through private donors and you know, organizations who are able to, to fund nonprofit arts.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
That's great that the you of the community there that that does support that you have such an amazing thing going on. That's, that's pretty awesome. Do you have any funny stories or horror stories or any fun moments that you had from, from teaching or even now?
ASHLEIGH WORLEY:
Yeah, so, well this one's a little silly. I have some hearing impairments, not bad enough to need hearing aids, but definitely have frequencies that I struggle with as well as certain times when people don't speak clearly enough. I really struggle to understand them, so I could always play into that as the theatre teacher about you need to enunciate and have good diction cause I really can't hear you. I was student teaching and there was a, and in a young boy I think he would've been in ninth grade who, who was a real character really. He was constantly making comments, zero filter about the other kids in class and his feelings that day. And he had a comment for everything. And there was another child in the class who did not have many friends who was a little bit of a an outcast in the class and he really struggled with self esteem and the kids tended to pick on him and we had a success moment where he, he he volunteered to go up to, to do a pantomime activity. I don't remember what it was. And the students in the classroom, we're supposed to try to guess what he was doing and my, my one boy who with no filter raises his hand and I hear Mumble, mumble crack addict. And I was done. And I ripped into this child, you know, we do absolutely do not talk about our classmates in this way. Rant and this kid is just staring at me like I have three heads. And eventually another kid next to him, their face lights up and they're like, oh, oh you thought he said crack addict, he's a crack addict. I was like, yeah. And, and the boy said No. I said, I'll have a crack at it. And Oh, well, let's take this moment to a demonstration of what we do when we do something wrong. And I am so sorry I did that. I was so mortified. And that, and that struggle, you know, carried with me into teaching high school. You know, tech theatre is a little bit of a passion of mine and working with sound systems, I mean when we're trying to balance microphones, there are times that I just can't hear if there's something wrong. So it was a, it was a really cool thing to be able to flip my own impairment on its head, to empower the students to get out there and help me figure it out because I, you know, was able to, to show this is what we're looking for. These are the kinds of things you need to tell me. And I'll show you how to fix that even though I can't hear it. So, you know, it had been a blessing and a curse through my teaching career for sure. Another time I was teaching high school when I was teaching the high school class, we always went to the North Carolina theatre competition, NCTC every year, uh, which most theatre teachers in North Carolina, I know all about the play we did required getting a or required, uh, a funeral on stage. And I'm a, I'm a pretty big minimalist when it comes to sets, but in this case I was just dead set on having a real coffin. So I was able to sweet talk a funeral home into loaning us one of their display coffins, which is a little weird, but they brought it over to the school in the hearse and rolled it on in. And you know, we, we had it locked up. Um, and the weekend of competition, we, I left the day before on the Friday. I went up to see the shows how to sub that day. The kids were going to rehearse on their own and I'm sitting at NCTC in a show and my phone starts blowing up and you know after the show I look and I have like 15 missed calls from different students in the class. Like, what is this? And so I call the sub on her phone like what is going on? And the sub is has no idea. But one of the kids grabs the phone and she was like, they're coming for the coffin. They're coming for it today. We don't know what to do. I was like, what do you mean they're coming for it today? They need to come for it next week. And apparently they had gotten their dates mixed up and they had called the school to say they were on their way and my kids are having a meltdown. I was like just hang tight. I will call them and figure this out and I call them. I get it figured out. So I called back to the school to get on the phone with the sub again and by this point, and it tells you how useful the sub was, the kids had decided they needed to take action into their own hands, so they went across the hall to the English Teacher's classroom and said, hey, we need to hide a coffin in your classroom. They hid the coffin in his closet so when they came looking for it, so it would be safe and they could bing it to competition the next day. It was the time. I'll never forget. Right.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
That's fantastic. Wow.
ASHLEIGH WORLEY:
I'm not sure the English teacher will ever forget it either.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
I can just imagine his face as they knock on the door and said, can we store our coffin in here please?
ASHLEIGH WORLEY:
Yeah. he often would great students in his classroom wearing a Batman mask though. So honestly, you know, I don't know if it would have been that surprising.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
That's fair. That's fair.
ASHLEIGH WORLEY:
You've gotta have fun. You have to enjoy what you do. Or there's no point, What is a resource that you have you used in the past or that you see your teaching artists using now that you think we need to know about? Yeah, so there's a couple. One of which and a couple of these it's hit or miss whether you find what you, what really is effective and what you're looking for. There's an online group called the Drama Notebook that publishes different lessons and curriculum and plays that you can get free of royalties for paying their membership. Drama Notebook has tons of resources. I'm actually published on there as well and there's some pretty good stuff there and it's for all ages K through 12 which is really nice. Another one that I really loved my first couple years teaching when I was still trying to figure things out was Brigham Young University has a theatre education database and it seems like anyone can submit stuff so some of it's better than others, but I was able to to steal some really good ideas through my first couple of years of teaching through that. And currently the one that I direct my staff to the most in terms of trying to to find information and lessons and resources is the Kennedy Center website. They have some really fabulous resources on arts and schools and professional development and a little bit of everything. And even for me, sometimes I'll lead uh, workshops on arts education for teachers in the community. A lot of times I'll go on there and pull off some of their definitions or resources to share with teachers. So I still use that one.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
I've definitely used the Brigham Young University one myself and there's some amazing material on there. So I appreciate you reminding me of that. What are your parting words of wisdom for not only new teachers but people looking to be teaching artists that would be coming to possibly work with you or other theatre companies?
ASHLEIGH WORLEY:
You can never stop learning. You really can't ever assume that your education is done when you leave school. And obviously classroom teachers have to continue their education and continue to get those continuing education credits. And I, a lot of classroom teachers I see treat those like a burden rather than an opportunity. And it shouldn't be that way. The best teachers and the best educators are the ones who are always looking to learn from their students. And from their peers as well as the folks who manage them as well, regardless of the position. And the moment you stop trying to learn something new is the day you need to retire because you're no longer in it for the right reasons.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Yeah. That goes back to one of my students this week, we, um, this was our last week of classes and I always, I try to devote the last day if I have the time in the, in the semester to just kind of debrief for this semester and for them to give me thoughts on what worked, what didn't work, what assignments they like, what they got the most out of. And one of the students, uh, mentioned, he said I really appreciated what Sarah said at the beginning of the year. And Sarah was sitting next to me. She was like, I have no idea what I said, so I don't know where this is going. And he said, Sarah said instead of looking at all these assignments and all this work a s something we have to do, look at it as something we get to do.
ASHLEIGH WORLEY:
Yeah. You know, you, you kind of reminded me one of the things I do with my staff now and one of the things we're going to start doing with our contract teaching artists in the fall, there's a book by Chip Wood, it's called the Yardsticks. He writes maybe six to eight pages about each age, four years old, three 14 and what to expect developmentally of students of these ages. What are they physically capable of? What are they emotionally going through? How do they interact with their peers, how do they interact with their teachers, how do they interact with their parents? And it's written for classroom teachers, but even as someone who works outside of the classroom now, there is so much to be gained from that. And I've been doing it for the last couple of years. Everywhere I go, I do it as a book club with my staff and we do one chapter a week and we sit down and we go, what do we agree with? What do we disagree with? What experiences do we have that fit into this or don't? And it's so cool. Just again going back to the idea of lifelong learning. But that book is a fabulous resource and I personally think it should be taught everywhere cause it's, it's phenomenal.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
I'm gonna check it out myself actually. So thank you for mentioning that. I have really enjoyed talking with you today. Great to see some, uh, 49er alum out doing some amazing things and I appreciate what you're doing out there.
ASHLEIGH WORLEY:
Thank you for chatting with me.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Thank you for reaching out to me. I really enjoyed chatting with Cyndi and Ashleigh for this episode. Ashley, when it came to find out, Ashley and I went to the same Undergrad as you heard in the interview at UNC Charlotte. Um, but we actually both had the same mentor teacher for our student teaching. Barbara Mager was both of our mentors. So that was fun information for me to find out after the interview and uh, all the great things that Ashleigh is doing out there in California. So keep up the good work. Go UNC Charlotte. And uh, again, Cyndi, thank you so much for talking to me as well. Thank you for listening this week. I really appreciate it. I know the year's winding down and you have 8 million things going on, so it really means a lot to me that you've taken time out to either play me in the background as you're working or listen to me as you're driving or while you're on the treadmill or or if just sitting, sitting enjoying a cup of coffee or a glass of wine. So thank you again so much for listening. It really does mean a lot to me. You can always find our archives and transcripts of every episode as well as each guest's recommended resources on the website. That will be at www.thedtalks.com You can always email me at thedtalkspodcast@gmail.com. You can find us on most all your social media and on Twitter @theatreedtalks. On Tumblr at thedtalks.tumblr.com. You can find us on Facebook at THED Talks, Instagram @thedtalkspodcast. Again, thank you so much for listening. You can find us on all of your favorite podcast providers. Just look for THED Talks on Apple Podcasts, on iTunes, Google Podcasts on Google Play, Spotify, Stitcher, Anypod, Tunein. You can find us on Youtube. Go on, subscribe to the show, rate us. Give us some of those stars. Review us and uh, share us with those theatre educators or theatre education students who you think could benefit from what we're talking about here on the show. Thank you, Joel Hamlin and Joshua Shusterman can use of your song. Magnetized I wish all of you teachers a very wonderful end of the year. Again, I know you're busy, so again, thank you for listening. I hope you have a great week and look forward to talking with you next week.
