1.7 A Conversation with Jack Colombo
This week Jimmy talks with one of his theatre education students about his experiences so far as a transfer student, involvement on campus, self-care, and diversity in the classroom.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
You're listening to episode seven of THED Talks with Jimmy Chrismon. THED Talks is a podcast for theatre teachers and theatre education students. I'm Doctor Jimmy Chrismon theatre education professor at Illinois State University. Each week I want to bring you stories and interviews from experienced K12 theatre teachers, current theatre education majors, and professors of theatre education that will warm your heart, renew your faith in teaching and provide resources to better your practice in your theatre classroom. Welcome to this week's episode. Thank you so much for listening. I'm really excited to bring you this episode. It's my first one where I'm interviewing one of my students. So you're going to get a perspective of of what a theatre had major, uh, is going through and what they do. And uh, hopefully they will provide some perspective for those of you theatre ed majors out there who are, are listening and, and gearing up for exams or finishing exams and, and embarking on either your first year of teaching or continued studies in theatre education. So thank you all for listening. If you are interested in being on the show, we do have some great guests coming up and I'm also looking for uh, for people to be interviewed for next season. When the school year starts back, we'll probably take a couple of months off in the summer, uh, as teachers so we can enjoy our time off. But we do have some great episodes coming up but I'm always looking for interesting guests and people who want to talk about what they love most in teaching theatre. So please reach out to me on email at thedtalkspodcast@gmail.com. You can also follow us on Twitter a@theatreedtalks on Tumblr thedtalks.tumblr.com. You can find us on Facebook at THED Talks, Instagram @thedtalkspodcast and of course our website, www.thedtalks.com where we have our show archives and transcripts as well as the resource lists from each of our guests so that you can quick reference those. Again, thank you for joining us. I'm really looking forward to you hearing my conversation with Jack Colombo, one of my students at Illinois State University. So without further ado, here's my conversation with Jack. Well, I'm excited to welcome this week Jack Colombo to THED Talks. Jack is one of my theatre ed students at Illinois State. So Jack. Why don't you introduce yourself, tell everyone a little bit about you and kind of what brought you, how your journey brought you to studying theatre ed at ISU.
JACK COLOMBO:
Ah, yes. Hello. Um, as Jimmy stated, my name is Jack and I am a junior theatre education major in his program as well as a, um, a minor in English. I have been involved in the theatre arts since I was six years old. I saw my cousin Catherine in Peter Pan. She was playing Peter Pan and um, she, I just remember watching that performance and seeing her like fly in a system and going, oh, my, I want to do this. Like is something that I could do. And it just kind of progressed in that way. But I didn't, I didn't primarily like work in theatre when I was younger. I was primarily a tap dancer for eight or so years. And I, I took a lot of classes, um, through a small studio in my hometown and that the, um, the Old Town School of Folk Music in downtown Chicago. Um, but as soon as high school came around, all my focus came in on theatre and I just started kind of realizing like, hey, this is something that I want to do, but I don't know what I want to do with it. And then I realized I had, um, I had a, um, I had a passion for working with kids because I had worked at a local arboretum nearby my house as, um, as kind of like a naturalist, um, guide that would help kids through activities to help them learn about nature. Um, and then I worked at a summer camp that is about an hour north of Milwaukee for four years, two of those years I directed their theatre program there. Um, and I just fell in love with working with kids, um, and especially working with kids in theatre. And I only visited one school when it came to looking for colleges and that was Illinois State. And I think one of the first questions I asked the tour guides was, hey, is this an education school? And they said, uh, this, this school was founded to be an education school. And I was like, oh, I guess this is the right spot. Um, initially I at applied to ISU to be a history education major because my mom like was really big on history and teaching me and my brother that and I just kind of changed my mind. I was like, nah theatre's what I want to do, that's what I want my focus to be. And, um, I decided not to go to Illinois State and I went to College of Dupage, which is, um, a community college nearby my, my hometown. And I went there for two years, still decided that this was my best place. And um, yeah, this past year was just a working through your THED courses and working through this theatre department, being involved in a ton of plays. And, um, that brings me right here, sitting in your office.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Yeah. So there's a couple things I want to hit on. First is, talk to me a little bit about how you, how the, um, community college experience prepped you for what you're doing now. Um, because I, I know going straight into a university or college is not what every high school senior should be doing. Um, and, and sometimes they're taking years off, sometimes they're going into the military, sometimes it's, it's staying and saving some money, doing community college and then transferring in somewhere where you can really focus on what you're doing. So talk to me a little bit about that experience.
JACK COLOMBO:
Yeah, you're absolutely correct. If I would have came to Illinois State University as a high school student, I think I would have failed out because I was such a horrible student student in high school. I, uh, but you know, getting, getting to community college, it's completely different atmosphere because it's not as social, it feels like a lot of students at community college are there just to like go and be there. Like they go in there, they don't try to make relationships. Um, I made a lot of great relationships through community college in their theatre department, but when it came to the rest of my classes, it felt like I was just looking around at a sea of people who I didn't know. But that did help me because I wouldn't have, I didn't have the distraction of having all those people. So I was able to get my, assign all my assignments done in a timely manner and I was able to be more competent and learn how to, how to build up a work ethic that's needed when you're coming into a university. And so coming in here, like of course, I, I gained a ton of friends, like pretty instantly. I think I was, I mean, what, when it comes to me, I try to get involved as possible, like as soon as I can because if you don't, you don't meet as much people, the opportunities start to slip away. Um, and you just meet a lot less people. And so coming, coming out straight out of community college, I, I, I kind of learned how to just be involved. That's what I think it was the most important part of being a community college student and then coming into a university and they're theatre department at um, at College of Dupage is really, really great. They have a, um, they have a professional theatre company that's based out of community college called Buffalo Theatre Ensemble. And they have, um, an educational shadowing program through there where I was able to shadow an equity actor during a show during their entire rehearsal process. I think I learned more about professionalism in the acting world through that shadowing program than I have through all of my classes and experiences. Cause my, my, um, my acting and directing experiences are primarily in the educational setting with a few community theatre shows sprinkled in there. So it was, it was really nice to learn what it, what it takes to, to be a professional actor and to, to work in, um, work in that kind of a setting.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
What um, cause I know you, you've been, like you said, you've been very active since you, you got on campus here. I know I've directed you in a show and that you were in a main stage show in the spring where in both shows you showcase your tapping. Um, and uh, I know you, you, you've been involved in many other groups on campus so talk to me about what that was like getting involved and putting yourself out there.
JACK COLOMBO:
Yeah. Um, I mean I know that I met with you the spring semester before I came here for some scholarship thing I think. But um, that was nice to just get a feel of what cl asses are like here and how everything works. And you said...
JIMMY CHRISMON:
You did, you came to one of my classes that day too, right?
JACK COLOMBO:
Yeah, I did. That was your theatre for social change class. That was really cool. I'm really excited to take that class next year actually. Um, and yeah, I think first day I auditioned for Godspell, which Jimmy directed and it was just kind of like getting into a room with, I think it was like 24, 25, 26 other people that I had no knowledge of before, no prior experience. And I was like, you know, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna show them what I got. You know, I'm just gonna sit down here. And I was, um, I was lucky enough to be cast. I was sitting all throughout callbacks like, oh my God, like any, any of these people like could easily be cast. Everyone's just so talented here that that was my first impression of ISU is everyone's so talented. But I was lucky enough to be cast. And then I was involved in an a capella, an a capella group here called On the Brink of Normal. And I sang bass for a semester with another one of your students, Wesley Skym? And that was, that was really fantastic, but I had to quit that in the spring semester because I was involved in, um, The Light in the Piazza. Um, and then I also worked in practicum in, um, I, I worked as, um, in run crew for An Enemy of the People, which like right off the bat, that's like two shows in the semester. And then I also did a, um, a short film as well that semester called A Town on Willow Borough. Um, that was all just that, that first semester was just busy, busy, busy, busy, like going from the one place to another. Also dealing with a TCH 212 and having to do, um, observations early in the morning. So I was able to handle it because I'm able to, because of my experience as a camp counselor, um, I feel like I can wake up very early and then go to bed very late because I'm used to dealing with kids 24 hours a day. I don't know if that stream of thought made sense, but I, I'm, I'm used to that workload. But coming in the spring, I just coming into the spring semester I was able to just kind of sit back and reflect for a moment. Um, I decided not to audition for Freestage, which is a student run production company here. Um, and instead I actually light designed my first show ever, which was A Green River. And then I did Light in the Piazza earlier, which was a really a fantastic process. I think I only had one line in English in that show. I played Giuseppe Nacarelli, who was just this flamboyant, um, flamboyant. Um, how do I put this? He was very promiscuous and he, yeah, that was, that was a fun introduction to the main stages here. Um, oh, I'm completely missing. ISTOP. Yeah. Um, the Illinois State Theatre Outreach Program here at campus was, I was involved in that like the first day that, the first day of meetings and throughout the semester I just started getting more and more involved and eventually a board position opened up starting last fall. And I was like, I can do this. Um, which was a treasurer position and myself and another student, Josie, um, took on that position for the spring semester. Elections rolled around again in the spring semester and I was lucky enough to be elected treasurer again. Um, so it's, it's been a lot, there are a lot of things to do here and um, I'm just so glad. Glad that I was able to do that. Um, honestly, I just showed up and asked and I got a lot of opportunities just by showing up and saying, Hey, what can I do? Um, at which, which brings me to what I'm doing. And this next fall, which I'll be assistant directing Yellow Inn which that show is actually super cool because it's, um, it's the North American premiere, another professor here, a Kee-Yoon Nahm had translated it and then, um, Jason Jang is going to be directing that. They're, they are both Korean and this is a Korean show and it's a very, it's a very, it's a dark comedy and it's, it's just going to be really cool. But yeah, that's, that's where it, that's where I leave off and that's where all my experiences lead to have led me to throughout ISU when it comes to acting particularly I've, uh, aside from my, uh, aside from the educational courses that I've taken, I haven't had too many educational experiences, but I feel like I've learned a lot still.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
What has been your greatest challenge, um, since you started here back in the fall and you were kind of thrown in head first into the deep end, especially with my classes and uh, because transfers are always a unique situation and, and trying to catch you up but keep you afloat at the same time can be a challenge. And so talk to me a little bit about, for you from your perspective, what has been your biggest challenge? Um, since, since starting as a THED major?
JACK COLOMBO:
Yeah, I've had to um, to personal problems. I wouldn't say anything with, um, cause I mean your, your classes are tough. Um, there, there are a lot of different assignments and a lot of readings and you make us go out and do different, um, different observations at a whole bunch of different places such as, um, such as with Seedling Theatre here and at a middle school. I know that our certification is only a nine through 12, but I'd say firstly one of my biggest issues is myself to other people. Um, because there are a lot of, I mean the first day that I was here, like I noticed the sheer talent that was here and there are a lot of other different THED students who are just doing so much and have been, and I felt like coming in as a transfer that I've been missing out on those two years that I could have worked with such great programs and such great people. And now I feel myself comparing myself to other people because they, they were here for longer because I went to community college and is my acting as superb as other people, which I know is, I try to stay away from that mindset, but it's a, it's always kind of there where it's like I, I feel like I'm comparing myself too often.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
What do you think that is?
JACK COLOMBO:
That's a good question. I just,
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Cause I don't do that. And I talked to you all in class yesterday about that. Yeah. That I, I, everyone compares themselves to the, to the next, the next better person that they think is above them. The freshman to a sophomore, sophomore to a senior, senior to their teacher and on and on and on. And we're all constantly comparing ourselves. But I wanted to make the point yesterday to your, to your class specifically that I don't do that. That I think it's, I think it's really cool when I watch you all do something that I wouldn't have done. And you do it well. And I learned from that experience. Sure. Um, and then you learn from each other. And, and like I said, I want, I think the greatest compliment for me five, 10 years down the road is when you email me and say, hey, this teacher came to me because they thought how I teach this unit is really cool. I just thought it was part of what I do. But Hey, that's cool. For me, that is the biggest compliment. And, and to find your unique voice and to be your authentic self in your classroom, um, is so important. Not just for your own personal sanity, um, but for the connection with your students as well. Because if you're putting on an act and you're trying to be someone else, they're going to see through that. And I, I, from my own personal experience, I tried so hard my first year of teaching to be my cooperating teacher from my student teaching. Um, and I've, I've interviewed Barbara on the podcast and Barbara and I are two completely different individuals. We have completely different demeanors, um, different ways of interacting with students that are effective. Um, and me trying to be Barbara did not work for me.
JACK COLOMBO:
I think for me it's um, it's a strive to be the best kind of a thing where I, I just want to do so much and just being known as that person who is superior and reliable, I know that sounds a little bit pretentious, but I feel like that's, that's what my feeling about it has been. But I feel myself transitioning more towards your mindset where it is a instead of trying to be the best, why can't I be my own best where I, I just need to work on myself as opposed to all the other kids that are in class with me. That's what I've been trying to specifically work on with my own mindset as opposed to trying to adopt the mindset of my own classmates. Cause I, I see myself as, I don't know, different from other theatre majors because it's, it's like theatre is like what I like to do, but it isn't me almost where it's, it's something that I really do enjoy it and it's the love of my life, but it's not who I like to like define myself as almost. Cause I know a lot of people are like constantly seeing long to Hamilton or wicked or all of that. I'm just like, can we just listen to some indie music or something? Can I, can I get a little break from that? Um, but I mean, I, that's what I really want to focus on in my next two years here is just being my best me. Cause I mean you, you are absolutely correct. And the comparisons, it, it can get a little bit toxic and that's what I was feeling in my first semester. But it's just something that I'll, I'll work towards.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
I think we're always constantly working towards that. Absolutely. Um, one of my favorite stories from when I was, when I was teaching, um, I had two students, um, and I'll, I'll, I'll mention their names because I'm not saying anything bad about them, but I had a student named Jonathan Hoskins who, um, everyone viewed as this powerhouse in our department. Um, he was a fantastic performer. He was a great teacher. I still think he should have been a teacher. Um, he, he was, there was just some natural talent and he also listened to feedback and he, he took every opportunity to grow. Um, so he was a powerhouse in our department. And then he graduated. And then the very next year a new student, came in who was pretty, uh, pretty strong powerhouse already in the community. Um, but he, he came to our program, his name was Justin Norwood. And, um, for those, the next four years, Justin was a powerhouse. He went on to win a Jimmy, not Jimmy, a Blumey and performed at the Jimmy Competition. Um, he's graduating next this month and Elon, good God. And he's graduating. That's scary. Wow. Um, but, um, Justin's first year there he will, he already had a pretty strong reputation of being a strong performer and strong theatre artist. And he, he went to chorus class on the first day of school and, um, the chorus teacher said, oh, you are you the next Jonathan Hoskins? And he said, no, I'm the first Justin Norwood. And that has always resonated with me and it's, and it's always been in the back of my mind. And, and lately, especially as we've been talking in class and as I've been talking to, to teachers on this podcast, that you gotta be the first you and, and pay homage to those people who have inspired you and that have mentored you and have given you tools, but be the first you. I think that's just, that's extremely important. What had been the, the, the biggest joys that you've had so far in your, in your journey to being a theatre teacher?
JACK COLOMBO:
Yeah, that would be working, working at camp and being able to get that first experience, um, with working with kids. Um, for context, my, my program, there was five one hour sessions with kids ages six through 16. Um, what I do is I teach them the very basics of theatre and just be like, this is how you speak on stage. This is how, this is what stage directions are. So I'd slowly build up to the rehearsal process so that within a span of two days, they were able to, um, to do this five to 10 minutes skit at the closing campfire for that week. Um, earlier on in the week I'd say, Hey, you guys pick what you want to do for this show. I'll write it and you guys put it up. And they, sometimes it was original, sometimes it was like, oh, what's winter like at Camp? And I was like, let's do that. And sometimes it's like, let's do a Harry Potter remake. Okay. Um, and that, that was tough just because I had no experience with play writing before that. And I know the person that was before that had came before me, um, who is now an actor in Chicago. Um, he, he was really fantastic with it and I was like, I don't know what to do, but um, I, I still learned a lot. And it was, it was a great bare bones little thing, but at the same time I was able to watch the shyest eight year old just come on stage and deliver, like deliver a couple of lines where at the beginning of the week they could barely introduce themselves to me and now they're in front of 400 other campers doing a scene. And that was it. It was really rewarding and like, and that, uh, just being in charge of that theatre program is one of the things, one of the main reasons why I want to like go out and teach theatre in a high school setting because I see the good and the improvement. And in those students, I mean coming here was the first time I had experienced how to actually teach because I had taken one education course in my community college, but it was like general K-12. And they briefly touched on Bloom's taxonomy. Briefly touched on the how to write a lesson plan where like with your class specifically, it was the first time where I learned, oh, this is what a lesson plan is. How do I write it? Oh wait, what are standards? Oh, this is how, and I mean that that kind of a thing for me was easy to pick up on, but it was a challenge to put those thoughts and ideas in and you know, see the goal executed. I think with our most recent lessons, which were our diversity lessons I had. Um, I mean, you, you know, I had a lot of issues with getting, uh, getting that lesson to really come to fruition. I was super worried about it because, um, what myself and Abby Steinhause had, um, had thought about was putting gender reorientation into a lesson. And so what we had tried to do was, um, compare it to Shakespeare, because there is a lot of conversations about gender that you can do with Shakespeare. And so we had decided to hand out these sides and then have them rehearse and then have a discussion afterwards. But I, I mean, my main concern for that in particular was just how to control a rehearsal room and how do I supervise? Am I doing enough? And I, in all honestly I shouldn't have been worried about it because I think it went fine and I learned what I needed to learn about how to teach the lesson better for next time. Um, and so I, I've been having a lot of challenges fighting against myself. It's like I'm finding that I'm my own worst enemy in some in some cases specifically with writing lesson plans. And then I also have just a huge problem staying focused in classes too, where it's just like, oh, I'll sit there for five minutes and think, and it's the same thing occasionally with my lessons where I'll just like space out and forget. And that was that was a problem because I totally forgot about one student in that class and who was just sitting off on the side. I think it was, I think it was Dylan DeWitt I had completely forgotten about. And I just remember reading over your notes for that and it was like Dylan and then an ellipsis followed that. I was like, oh no, I, so I, I mean I've been working against my concentration myself. Um, but I think with, I think with myself what I need to work on is just confidence.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Yeah. And I mean it, the experiences you're getting so far, I mean the, the, the couple of things that you have taught in class and the observations you've done and the experiences of seedling, which, which is special needs theatre we have in town. Um, I think all of those, I mean I'm thinking back to your very first day and to where we are now at the end of this semester and how much that confidence has grown and how much, um, how much that skill has been sharpened since you've been here and from where you were when you first taught, uh, a warmup game to where we are now. And you were partner teaching for 25 minutes with the diversity lesson and the complexity of that assignment of, of infusing lenses of diversity into what we already do is theatre teachers instead of making it a one off. Um, I think you've risen to the challenge. You've, you've worked hard. You've, again, you were, you were thrown into the deep end head first and you've, you've, you've swam, you, you've, you've done what you needed to do. And I, I think, I think it's just going to keep growing and I can't wait to see that over the next couple of years.
JACK COLOMBO:
I'm excited to take, um, 216 specifically in the fall, just so I can, you know, learn how to deliver a unit too. And I know with two 85, everyone's talking about Ah, curriculum map. Oh No. Um, which like I know is hard, but that's also exciting. There's, there's something another student says or has said at the beginning of each semester that has really resonated with me. It's, um, don't be, don't be discouraged by what you have to do. Think about, I'm paraphrasing. Um, think about what you're, think about it as, oh, I get to do this and then move forward with that mindset of, oh, there's just a bunch of cool different things. Cause I mean, what, what you give to us is, uh, I, I think you're the first professor who has shown me like diversity is very important. Like the, like this past semester was all about diversity in the classroom and the books that, that you had given us, I find to be, Eh, Eh, I find to be the first time where I'm critically thinking about, oh, what if I do have someone who has cerebral palsy in my class, how am I going to do any sort of like warm up games or for example, ships and sailors? Like, how, how are they going to be involved in that? And, um, you, you've really gotten us to critically think about what we need to do in order to accomplish our goals as teachers, which I think is really important since we're legally bound to help students with IEPs and 504's, which, you know, I, I'm very, I'm very grateful so far for everything that you have shown me in, in your classes. Cause it, it, it is completely different and you take it very, very seriously as well. Um,
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Well it's just it's important. Yeah. Those, those, those bodies and like Lea Marshall said last the other week on my podcast that those beady little eyes looking at you when they come in the room. They, they need to know their value too. Yeah. And I mean I'm, I'm standing up there, this big white man in front of a group of high schoolers. And when I taught in, um, Urban Charlotte and Rock Hill and, and you know, half my class were black students. And then I did have some Latino students and students who were ESOL. And I did have a student, a student with CP, cerebral palsy and, and finding a way to harness what they have to offer and bringing that together as an ensemble in that classroom. It's a really special privilege and obligation that we have as teachers. Yeah. It's a, I do take that very seriously. Yeah.
JACK COLOMBO:
So then how do you, how have you in, cause I think you've taught for 17 years. Yeah. Um, how have you accomplished those? Because I know that you have posed that question to us as students, as the theatre education students about how would we, but how I, I'm curious to know, how would you accomplish, accomplish goals of working with the students with cerebral palsy, um, and then covering topics such as race, gender orientation, sexual orientation, and other, um, other topics.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Um, I think, and you're going to hear this probably all of your education courses and, and all the eduspeak that's out there right now is, it's it and it, but it's true is because it boils down to the relationships that you form with the students. Um, if you greeting them every day when they come in your room, knowing their names, asking how their day is going, what are they looking forward to on the weekend? Those seem like silly, trivial things. But to some of those kids, you're the only person that asks that. And, and that, that's, that was how I, I, I think I was able to form such strong, healthy relationships with all my students. The, the, the, the white boys who were, where that went hunting on the weekends, that I had nothing in common with that. I, I've never held a gun in my life, you know, but, but asking them how that went, oh, did you get that buck you were hoping to get? And just knowing that I was interested in what they're doing, knowing, um, I think to Seanasia, um, when I, when I taught her at my last school that she, she was, she was looked, she was viewed as this really rough young woman in our, in our building. She was a black woman. Um, she had a, a tough, a tough life outside of the school building. Um, and a lot of that followed her into the school building. Um, and I had her in my intro class and I was able to find a way just to joke with her, um, compliment her when she had her hair done. Um, Seanasia, I really like that shirt you're wearing today. That's really pretty. Um, and just seeing them light up that you paid attention to them. And I mean, she went on to take my acting class. She went on to take my playwriting class. She went on to take my tech class and I was, I put her up on stage. She was in a show and assistant principals came and were like, how did you get that out of her? How did you get her to sit still long enough to do this 45 minute show? Like she just did it and she knew that was the expectation and she wanted to do it. I made her feel successful. Um, is she gonna win a Tony this year? Absolutely not. Um, but, but I'm, it's my hope that those experiences in that, in that relationship formed with her will go on beyond her graduation and beyond me leaving south point. Um, but, but then again, not being a, I think it's also important to not be afraid to let those students be seen in the work that you're doing. Um, not just reading the, the dead white men playwrights. Yeah, no, just not just incorporating poetry or literature that is, that is not representative of who's in your room. Um, I think, I think it's important to, I think that representation is extremely important. Um, now, and it depends on where you are, um, in the country. Um, I was in an extremely conservative area before I moved up here. So the types of the types of issues in plays that I could produce, were limited, but it didn't mean I couldn't teach and talk about them in my class. Um, so when it came to talking about the LGBT students, that representation of me just simply acknowledging, I see you. You, you are valued in this room. Absolutely. Um, I had on my door, um, that we were a safe zone in my classroom. Um, and it wasn't just for LGBTQ, it was for students with disabilities. It was for students who were gifted students who didn't want to be there, students who did want to be there, that there's value in every single body that comes in the room. And I think, I think when kids see that they, that diversity is naturally celebrated in what you do. And it's like, why did I tell you what? I'll just constantly embedding it as part of what you naturally do in the culture of your classroom. That's so so important. Absolutely. When I, when I worked as a camp counselor, I think my biggest issue with memorizing names that, that is such a huge pro, it always has been. Um, man, I think, I think I called Cody, I had learned his name five minutes before and we were in the audition room and I think I called him Greg or something. And he was like, I had said like Greg several times and he was like, my name's Cody. And then I was like, oh no. And that, that was also an issue when I was a camp counselor. I struggled to learn everyone's names and even in my theatre program, even in my section. And that's, that's something that I'll be working on as soon as I get, um, a class that I'm working with consistently is like what are the names? What, what are their, what is their deal with life?
JACK COLOMBO:
How can I help them? That's um, that's something I completely agree with you on and I completely understand. Um, so I, I'm curious to know from you, um, about your methods classes that you took in college. Cause I know that I know about all, uh, all of what you were teaching me at, but I, I want to know about what differentiations you see in the classes that you teach and your curriculum with the curriculum that you had to go through when you were, um, like 20 year old college student trying to become a theatre educator.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
You're making me think way back, Jack.
JACK COLOMBO:
Good.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Um, what were they like? We, um, The first class we had to take was creative drama. Okay. Um, and because my certification was a k through 12. Wow. Was, it just wasn't just nine through 12, like you all are working on right now. Mine was kindergarten through high school. Um, so we, we worked with students of all the grade levels, not just observing but like physically working with them. Um, and creative drama. We learned, uh, the drama games and vViola Spolin and Dorothy Heathcoat. Um, and then we did, we did some peer teaching and leading in that class and it was just a natural progression and scaffolding and building like what we're doing here with starting with the 10 minute warm up or a game. And then we're gradually increasing what you're doing, where the partner teaching or solo teaching and building those skills so that you're ready to go when you work with students. But I, we also had, um, good gosh, what did we have? Um, we had to teach in an elementary after school program, uh, where we taught some creative drama lessons, uh, with thematic units. And then we had to teach in a middle school, um, and then their afterschool program, which that was, um, and I can't wait to talk to Matt Webster and see if he even remembers this, but my, my Jimmy Chrismon at UNC Charlotte, um, Matt Webster, we had to prepare these lessons. And my lesson was on African storytelling and it was a beautiful lesson that I had ready. And then I think I may have talked about it before. Um, but it was, uh, I got up there to teach in a kid, raised his hand first thing and it said, um, are you going to talk about Pokemon today? Because if you're not, I'm not listening. And that's when my professor was like, oh, he just laughed, threw his hands up and walked out of the room and left me to fend for myself. So we got through the lesson two is fine, but we, we did a lot of, a lot of teaching. Um, a lot of, um, in the schools observing. Um, I was, uh, I was in a program in North Carolina called Teaching Fellows, which was a scholarship program, but it was a, an intense program, um, where we, we met weekly, um, as a cohort through all four years through student teaching. Um, and we were all over all the disciplines. Um, and then in the summers we had experiences we had to do that took us into really, really, really rural school districts and where there was one school in the whole district. So I mean we had all kinds of really neat experiences to help us see where we might like to be and what, what things resonated with us and, and where we wanted to teach. But then my methods, my methods classes, um, I mean it was, it was lesson plan writing and paper writing. It was a lot of similar things that you all are doing. And I think the biggest difference now that I'm seeing is, um, that technology is such a bigger thing than it was then. I mean, when I, I, my senior year of high school, and this is really going to make me feel really old when I say this, but I mean we literally just got the Internet.
JACK COLOMBO:
Dang.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
So I mean, learning to use email on campus and, um, AOL chat rooms was a thing and you know, I mean those were high technology at the time. Um, and then websites being developed and I mean, so it, where it is now is if you don't check your email, you're screwed, you know? Um, and, and it's on our phones now and we have little computers that we carry around in our back pockets. And you know, those students who had a laptop at that time, those were very wealthy students in the school and now it's required to have one to take notes in class. Yeah. You know, so it, I think technology is a big thing now and those of us who we grew up with technology, but then we're also learning it as we're going versus you who are native with it. Um, learning how to make that a part of what we're doing in our classrooms because it's, it's very difficult to fight your students on that. And I think it's important to find ways to harness that and use those powers for good.
JACK COLOMBO:
Yeah. And I see, um, because the, the climate from when I was in high school to when I'm doing observations now when it comes to technology is completely different because when, when I was a senior in high school, that was the first year that they had statewide or schoolwide, like you have to have an iPad. Um, and which is like I, I would say that I grew up in, in a wealthier community. So I find myself very lucky to have had that outlet. And, but at the same time, in those classes, they were like, no cell phones. If we see a cell phone, we're taking like you go down to the office. And now when I have been coming in and observing Normal West High School and Bloomington High School, it's like the kids are like snapchatting each other in the middle of the class. Like the, like the teacher that I, an English teacher that I observed was like showing a movie about, um, about the hero's journey. And then like, she, I think she was going to show everyone like iron man to show everyone, like, oh, like this is still seen nowadays. And while while that movie was playing, like all the kids were like on their phones and I was like, what, what's going on? Um, I was talking to another cooperating teacher and he was like, yeah, you know, um, we can't really stop them. It's there. It's just like a completely different mindset where as you know, we're, we're allowing you to do this, but if you decide to not put in the work, then you're done for where it was super strict back when I was in high school or where it was like no tolerance of this. Um, there was a particular, um, observation that I remember seeing the old ideals in the new ideals clash where it was, um, I was going in for a teaching observation and my cooperating teacher wasn't there and instead it was a substitute and the substitute was an older gentleman. I'd say he was in his sixties, and he was coming into the class where everyone had their phones out and he was like, no, I'll take your phone. And it was, I think it was a 25 minute struggle of him just shouting at the kids and being like, give me your phones, give me your phones. And all of that. Which it's just such a, such an interesting problem nowadays. But yeah, getting, getting the students to focus is another issue. And I see a lot of different schools attempting to control that, but do they even want to control it? Is the, is it even that big of a problem as they see? That's something that some questions that I'm trying to, to pose when I'm thinking about how I wanted to get to my classes in the future,
JIMMY CHRISMON:
But I think it's and, like you said that it was a 25 minute battle for that sub. That's 25 minutes of instruction that you've lost. Yeah, no, not that, not the subs give the greatest instruction, but what if that was you? That's 25 minutes of a 45, 50 minute class period that you've lost because you're fighting a battle that you're probably not going to win. Um, so I think it's important to find that balance, finding, picking and choosing those battles. Um, uh, you know, um, what are we, how are we teaching the kids to use those things responsibly? What, what or when is it appropriate to use them? Are we teaching them those skills as well? And then why are we as teachers fighting it? Why or why are we not finding ways to use it with what we're doing? They can, they can film each other doing monologues and then do self critiques. I mean, you can, you can, you can film in parts of a s, you know, plot structure with having them do a film of, of a storyboard that they've written of a, of a story and you're still having them create characters. You're having them create a plot, you're having them act it out. Um, you're, you're teaching them how to edit, you know, not, not editing with the technology but editing their work. Um, so I, I mean I think there are, there are ways that we have to start being smarter instead of starting instead of working harder to keep it from happening. It, it's inevitable. It's where we are now.
JACK COLOMBO:
Right. Um, I, yeah, I know this is kind of an aside, but I did see it's kind of technology and the theatre classroom being used. My brother showed me his first ever duet scene that. Yeah. He's currently a senior. He is going to be graduating in May. Yay. Um, and he, he show like the, the fact that he was able to film it and then show it to me is just wild in my, in my comprehension. And that I was able to, you know, sharing that that was really neat. Um, I, I know that I told you how absolutely, ah, how, how much I absolutely loved, um, like being in that middle school classroom that I was just, um, I was just observing because they, they did something cool. I mean it wasn't a theatre class, it was a science classroom. But a couple of cool things that I saw in there was it was taught bilingually and um, uh, where it was, it was Spanish and English and the teacher would teach part of the lesson in English and part in Spanish because there was such a high amount of students who were bilingual. And there was, there was one case where I think it was a kid from, it was a student from Guatemala who didn't know how to speak English. And so it was, it was really critical for him to be in this curriculum where he was able to successfully go along with the assignments and successfully follow along with, um, with the teacher. And I also saw a lot of great, um, great things through her teaching of the classroom and her teaching of soft skills and of character work where I, the first man it was, I, I, I remember getting up at six in the morning. I was just dead tired. Um, I think I was up until midnight that past night writing a paper and I was like, okay, go into observations, whatever. And then I get to her class and the first thing she does is she makes everyone circle up and she was passing around a ball and I believe the activity was if you have the ball, you tell one other person in the room, you, you compliment one other person in the room and it just went around. And everyone was just so nice to each other and the fact that she had done enough work in her class to get those students to the point where it was a community and it was a positive and a loving community that really like struck a chord with me and that it was also possible with middle school students. And that, um, that's something I really would love to look into doing more is going into the, going more in depth with middle schoolers because I, I think it's crucially important to have students who are involved in the arts and to, and to get them more involved when they're younger. Because if you, if you spark their interest when they're younger, you get more competent and more loving and passionate individuals. Um, one, uh, one of the people that I grew up with and one of my neighbors, his, um, his name was Andrew. He did, he did a couple shows with me in elementary school, but completely quit out of it, come middle school. And then all of a sudden in high school he was in one show and he, he was never in any, uh, any other shows, but he kept coming back and he kept watching and experiencing and being a part of theatre because he had enjoyed it from such a young age. And if, if we're able to do that and if we're able to get students involved when they're younger than the, they'll love it more when they're old.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
I think there are a couple of things that I want to, I want to go back to with what you just said. Um, I think it's fantastic that you are finding an interest in that middle school group. Um, I think, I think it takes very special people to work with that group. I think it takes very special people to work with elementary. I think it takes very special people to work with high school. Um, and we're not all cookie cutters to work perfectly with all of them. Some of us are. I wish I was um, I found my niche with the high school group and I found that that's where I had that special connection with. I could do it with middle school. It just took a lot more patience on my part. Um, but if you are that person who that is where your passion is and you, you've got a connection to them, those kids need that.
JACK COLOMBO:
Yeah, I'd need to. I'd need to work on my patients as well cause I think...
JIMMY CHRISMON:
We all do.
JACK COLOMBO:
It's just part of life, being patient and knowing when to say things, when not to say things and then just, yeah, moving forward with everything.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
But I think it's also important to know that that teacher that you observed that was able to do that with her class, um, it, it, it draws back to, um, calls back to what I, when I talked about with Lea Marshall on a podcast the other week that, um, she does that with her students. Um, it's the, um, how are you feeling and what is your intention today? Um, and the kids may Groan and Moan at first, but then they all, it's part of the culture of what they're, and again, if, if that's, if that's who you are and you can do that and, and they buy into it and they're there with you, it's only going to strengthen what you do with them. Um, and if you're able to, and I say if you're able, we are able to, as theatre teachers, we have that flexibility in our curriculum that we can take that 10 to 15 minutes to do that every day if we need to. And want to, um, I think it should, again, it goes back to what, where do you value things as a teacher? And I think establishing those relationships if that's the way you're going to do it and you can do it. Do it. Because it's important to those kids.
JACK COLOMBO:
That's something that I definitely want to add to any classroom. Even if I were, if, if I do decide to teach middle school or high school, I'm not stuck, I'm stuck. I still don't really know if that's a path that I want to follow. But it's going to take, it's going to take some research.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Um, I have, I have a couple of questions for you and then we'll know more rapper, but I wanted to know what did theatre do for you as a student?
JACK COLOMBO:
It was my outlet. It was really one of the only things that I connected to and that I was good at. Um, because I, I mean of course I played sports. My, uh, um, my dad made it pretty particular to, you know, get a, get me in my brother involved in that so that we understood like how the game worked and how everything worked. But it wasn't something that I was interested in that like my heart was into. And I think having an outlet to express myself rather than having an outlet to, Oh, win the game and all of that was, they were just two completely different things. And the arts helped me really discover who I was and discover how I could express my emotions. Because if I, if I was having a bad day and if I was just coming to coming back from classes like, oh no, I failed a test or something, then I knew that I, that I had something to rely on and that I had something to, um, to put my time and my energy into. And theatre has also given me so many opportunities to peer into the lives of other people. Um, so a recent theatre experience that I had that like really impacted me was, um, was ISTOP's We are proud to present a presentation... I, if you don't know that show, give it, give it a read. All of you podcast listeners, I'm going to to goodness,
JIMMY CHRISMON:
I left that show Sunday afternoon and I was not right for the rest of the evening.
JACK COLOMBO:
I, I am still thinking about it. I it, I, I was sobbing at the end of it and it's, I think that's the importance of theatre, especially in my life, is to, is to show and to get us to understand and the just how, just how awful some parts of history and humanity can be, but also what we can do to stop those things and how we can move forward. And that's, those are just some things that the theatre has done specifically in my life to make me a more holistically rounder and more accepting person.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
My parents pushed and pushed when I was young to do sports. Um, I did tee ball, I did machine pitch. I've stood out in the field and pick grass and threw it in the air and spun underneath it as it fell on me. Yeah. So sports was not a thing for me. It was for my other two, my two brothers, they're the all American boys. I was not, I did music, I did theatre. Um, and I found this, this comic a couple of years ago and I gave it to my dad on father's day. I framed it and gave it to him and I have a copy for myself. Um, and I'll, I'll take a picture and post it on social media after we talk about it. But it has these three dads sitting around a grill with a beer and one dad says, I'll admit, I dreamed of watching my kid play little league. But on the plus side, there are no away games in youth theatre. Um, so I, yeah, I think it's important that there are these other outlets and, and that we, we do have multiple ways for our kids to be a part of things and to express themselves.
JACK COLOMBO:
I was, I was very fun, fortunate to have such a, um, such a loving and accepting mother. Shout out Julie Blades and she, whenever I saw something that I wanted to do, I was able to do it. And I think a lot of education starts with having supportive, uh, family members who want you to do these things so that you're not just, Oh, you're, you're a boy. That means you have to do sports. Like, no, that doesn't necessarily mean I'll be interested in that. Like there, there needs to be other outlets open to everyone. And I am so, so fortunate to have had, um, the artistic outlets that I have had throughout my entire, my entire life. Yeah.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Well my last question for you is I is, is because I know that you are busy. I know all of my theatre ed majors are busy. You all have the hardest time saying no. You do, you're involved in everything. So I want to know over the course of this last year that you've been here and you've been involved in so many things and been a part of all the things, what, what things have you found as a student that you can do to help take care of yourself? Not just physically, but emotionally, mentally as well.
JACK COLOMBO:
Sleep.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
But did you do it Jack?
JACK COLOMBO:
I actually do. I try to make a goal every night where I to where I get seven or eight hours of sleep. And if I don't, I mean this is just for me in particular. I get cranky. I can't function, I can't do my best work. If I don't get enough sleep and I might be, I might end up skipping a homework assignment. I might end up, you know, having to do it like, you know, earlier in the morning or cram. But because I was able to get that seven or eight hours, I am more, I have more of a capacity to be a human being. And sometimes you have to step away from being a machine in order to be a human. Um, I take, I take baths regularly. I try to play video games or you know, destress with people who aren't inside the theatre department because I feel like I see so many of the same people day in and day out where I just need to be like, no, I'm going to focus on my other friends. I'm going to spend time with them instead. Um, I also occasionally do meditation and I also make sure to reflect on who I am and just take that moment to separate myself from my work. Because if I don't do that then, and then I'm just, yeah. Like, like I said, I'm just not who I am. Yeah. I think that's about it. Um,
JIMMY CHRISMON:
I think it's imperative to have people who are your friends outside of what we do.
JACK COLOMBO:
Yeah.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Um, because if we're only friends with other teachers in our school building, we lose the perspective that there's a world outside of the school building.
JACK COLOMBO:
That's, that's very true. Um, and a lot of my friends are also other educators from other, um, from other professions. One of my best friends here, his name is Chris, has a history education major and he's able to converse with me about what, what he's learning from the history Ed side of things. And I'm able to talk to him Oh, about like, oh, this is what we do in theatre Ed. And I'm also grateful for my friends outside of theatre as well because they, they end up coming to my shows. I force them to come to my shows. Um, but it's, it's still great to know that you have that community outside of what you do that supports you and everything that you do.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Well, Jack, I have loved talking with you and I cannot wait to see what you do in the next couple of years. I think wherever you land as a teacher, whatever grade level you land with, your students are going to be very lucky.
JACK COLOMBO:
I appreciate it.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
And I think you're very creative and very talented and you have a giant heart, um, that your students are just going to completely benefit from. So thank you for sharing things with us. And um, hopefully, um, we may can have you back on that before you graduate or even after you graduate and you can talk to us about what where you think about things now.
JACK COLOMBO:
Maybe then I'll be able to contribute, a lot more as to, as to what I've done with my students. Um, don't, don't you have a section where you ask me advice. I, I, I have like one piece of advice.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Please give the advice.
JACK COLOMBO:
Um, I, I shared this with you, Jimmy. My, my thing, um, my like personal mantra is be real. And there was my, my first ever show that I had directed was a student written in one act and it was called the Grave Games. And it was a very farcical, it was about, um, it was about a school district that had no money at all and all of these students, um, like came in and were like, where's the school? And she was like, well, you have to fight for an A only we can only afford to give out one A. And it was, it was nonsensical, but it was really funny. And there was a rehearsal that we had where people were just breaking down. Um, someone was having medical issues and it was just like, okay, I can't have a rehearsal today. Let's just sit around it and do character work. And it was there, there was a moment where, um, one of my actors, Brennan, um, who I actually saw him in the all state show this past year, he was in, um, he was in the, In the Heights. It's cool to see how far he's come to. Um, but there was a moment where he took a serious approach to his character and it kind of threw me off guard where he was like, oh, I'm an orphan. Like both of my parents died in the car crash. And I was like, that's a cool choice to make. And it made his character like, more like authentic. And it, it just, that that was where I kind of realized to where it was. If you are who you are in everything that you do, then you will have the best experience with your life. And so whenever I direct shows or whenever I'm, you know, in that position where I can give advice, I say be real. Because if you don't know how to be real or be authentic, then you, um, then you won't have the best time, the, the closest friends, um, and, um, the most benefit out of whatever academic situation that you were going through. And that's what I have to share.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
I like it. Thank you. Thanks. Well, Jack, thank you so much for talking with me today. And, um, I know, I will see you more, but absolutely I know you're preparing to, to go to the camp for the summer. So, um, enjoy the rest of your semester and hope you get through it in one piece. Thanks. See you on the other side. Thank you.
JACK COLOMBO:
Thank you, Dr. Chrismon.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Oh goodness. Not that I am playing favorites, but I do think that has been one of my most enjoyable podcasts. Um, I've talked to some great teachers out there, some great people who are doing amazing things in the field and who have had legacies and their past. But it's, it's really exciting for me to hear my students excited about what they're doing and taking what we do in my classes and they're putting it into practice in the things that we do with our program. So Jack, it was wonderful talking with you. I look forward to talking to more of my students and I'm looking forward to talking to more teachers out there as well as theatre ed professors that are out there who are looking to, to talk with me. You can always find our transcripts and the archives of all of our episodes on the website, www.thedtalks.com you can find the podcast on any of your favorite podcast providers. Uh, you can find us on Apple Podcasts, on iTunes, Google Podcast on Google Play, Spotify, Stitcher, Anypod Tunein and Youtube. So please check out all of those things. Subscribe to us, rate us, give us some stars, review us, give us some feedback, what you like, what we can do better, as well as share the podcast with those teachers, those theatre ed majors, and those other people in your life who you think could really benefit and enjoy what we're doing here on the show. Thank you again for joining us. You can always reach me on email again at thedtalkspodcast@gmail.com. You can find us on Twitter @theatreedtalks on tumblr at thedtalks.tumblr.com Find us on Facebook at THED Talks and on Instagram @thedtalkspodcast. Thank you again to Joel Hamlin and Joshua Shusterman for the use of your original song "Magnetize" on the program. Uh, enjoying the music. And I love what you guys are doing. So thank you for sharing with us and thank you for listening. I hope you are out there like me. You have a, I've actually finishing up my semester, but I know some of you teachers still have several weeks to go and uh, it's that last big push of the year. So keep your heads up, keep working, keep pressing on, keep making a difference in those lives of those students and keep tuning in. Thank you so much. Have a great week.
