1.13 PRIDE Part 1- A Conversation with Harry Culpepper and Annaliisa Ahlman
This week Jimmy chats with out queer theatre teachers Harry Culpepper and Annaliisa Ahlman about their experiences as out queer teachers, professional organizations, and representation in the work they do with their students. This is part 1 of a 3-part series for PRDE month!
Harry Culpepper’s Resources:
https://artsedge.kennedy-center.org/educators.aspx
Annaliisa Ahlman’s Resources:
JIMMY CHRISMON:
This is episode 13 of THED Talks with Jimmy Chrismon. THED Talks is a podcast for theatre teachers and theatre education students. Hi, I'm Doctor Jimmy Chrismon theatre education professor at Illinois State University. Each week I want to bring you stories and interviews from experienced K12 theatre teachers, current theatre education majors, and professors of theatre education that will warm your heart, renew your faith in teaching and provide resources to better your practice in your theater classroom. I am super excited to bring this next series of episodes for you. This is the first in a three part series on pride. Since it is June, it's pride month. I wanted to provide some, some different perspectives on LGBTQIA youth, uh, that we teach, um, LGBTQ teachers as well as other things that are out there and also about mental health. Um, some information about mental health that we as theatre teachers can keep in mind as we're working with LGBTQIA students and for also for those of us who are LGBTQIA teachers out there. So I really hope you get a lot out of these next sets of episodes. Uh, this first one, I am specifically talking with, uh, Harry Culpepper, a theatre teacher in South Carolina and Annaliisa Ahlman who is a theater teacher, a dance teacher, music teacher, English teacher in Skokie, Illinois. So I do hope you enjoy those conversations. Thank you for joining us. You can always find our archives and resources as well as other bits of information and transcripts on our website, www.thedtalks.com. So please check that out. Again, thank you for listening. I hope you're enjoying your summer and, uh, please enjoy the first of the three episodes of pride. I'm excited to welcome to THED Talks for this very special episode. Mr Harry Culpepper. He teaches at Woodmont High School in Greenville, South Carolina. So Harry, tell us a little bit about Woodmont and a little bit about your program there and kind of just maybe the cliff notes version of your journey to where you are now in your career.
HARRY CULPEPPER:
All right. So, um, yes, I teach Woodmont High School, I'm in Greenville County we're the most rural, or one of the most rural schools in Greenville County. I'm in South Greenville area and, and um, this is year three for me there. Um, and I teach theatre one, theatre two three four honors, and IB Theatre HL and SL. So quite a few preps that I juggle. Um, but this is year 15 for me in teaching. I actually started out as a professional actor, um, with a BFA in musical theater. Performed for a few years professionally, then got recruited to start a drama program for deaf students at the South Carolina School for the Deaf and Blind. Sign language is my first language. Um, so that's kinda how it fell into that gig and then fell in love with teaching and I've taught elementary, middle, high school and that is the cliff notes version of where I came from and where I'm at now.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Well, I want to hear more about your, your work at the South Carolina School for the Deaf and Blind.
HARRY CULPEPPER:
Okay.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
I know that's, um, that wasn't an isolated point in your life because you've continued to use those skills throughout even what you're doing now at Woodmont. So can you share a little bit more about that with me?
HARRY CULPEPPER:
Yeah. Um, so we, uh, they, they contacted me to start the program given that both of my parents are deaf and sign language is my first language. And I literally taught, um, actually kindergarten all the way through high school, um, very small classes and I taught theatre to them as well as I did a couple of productions with the blind school as well. Um, and got to direct a, um, from what we know of one of the first blind casts of Annie Junior which was a lot of fun. The girl who played Annie was completely cane dependent but was determined to not use her cane. So she memorized the number of steps it took to move around the stage cause she didn't want Annie to be carrying a cane. And that was quite inspiring to see the passion and work, that work ethic that kids can have when you set the bar high. And, um, you know, you, when you say when you think that they can't, they can, and you never ever as a teacher say that out loud, but you know, sometimes we think it, but the kids always, you know, they, they amaze me and what they're willing to do. But in teaching deaf theatre like, you know, I, I didn't go to school to be a teacher, so I really taught the classes like it was like a theatre class. So then I just figured out ways to adapt some theatre games and how I would do it with the deaf student and how we would do it with sign language. And then I looked up several like deaf culture things like ABC stories where, um, you would use the alphabet to almost, it was like a combination. We're using the ABC's as well as pantomime and they would like create these stories, like going on a rollercoaster ride and, or searching through a forest. And it was all pantomime but using American sign language and the alphabet and it was kind of fun. So I just, I really didn't approach it any differently. Just I used sign language to talk in the classroom instead of speaking. Yes.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
And how has that carried over into what you're doing now?
HARRY CULPEPPER:
I think a lot of that has carried over and in terms of my focus with young actors on body work and how to tell stories with their bodies, um, in terms of like body language and, and visual and facial expressions and things like that. I think is very important because for young actors to be comfortable in their skin, I think so many times that, you know, middle school and high school is rough, you know, in terms of how they view themselves and their worried about how they look and how, how they think people think they look and how they communicate with their bodies. So I do a lot of work with communicating with their body, which is tied in with sign language. I use some sign language with games sometimes in theatre class. I use those ABC stories to help them get comfortable in their skin. But I really try and stress that, uh, they need to be able to tell their, tell the story as much with out word as they can with word. Um, because to me, when you're performing and acting, you're, you know, from the top of your head to the bottom of your feet and not just verbal, you know, anybody can speak and give vocal expression and things like that. But if you're fully invested in your characters, you should be able to communicate with everything that you have as an art, artists.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Talk to me a little bit more about your work at the various levels teaching theatre with elementary, middle, and high school. Um, what are the similarities and differences you found in the ways you approach those different age groups?
HARRY CULPEPPER:
You know, I think this goes back to my approach of like just treating classrooms like they're studios, an acting studios. I never thought about, okay, this is elementary school and I needed to like dumb this down a lot because I've found that if I set over simplified things with the younger students, they got bored really quick. And so I had to basically do the same things I did with my high school students that I did with like third graders. Um, in terms of like for an example like party quirks, like that Improv game a lot of, I feel like every time, at least with conversations I've had with other teachers, when I talk about the fact that I was doing party quirks with second graders, they were like, what? You did that? And I did, but I simplified in terms of like they had to pick an emotion to be a character versus like somebody who has arachnaphobia right. Something like that. But I have found that like kids in high school want to be kids again, just like they were in third grade. So I work really hard to create an environment where they feel like they can play again.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Talk to me a little bit more about that. The um, because I found when I was still in the classroom, not really now with what I'm doing with theatre majors who are there to be theatre people. But when I was in the classroom, like specifically with my intro level classes, it was kind of a period of time of teaching them to play again.
HARRY CULPEPPER:
Right. Absolutely. And you know, I focused a lot in my intro and high school theatre classes of just being creative. We do lots of theater games, lots of Improv. I know so many theatre teachers feel like, oh, I must make them do a monologue or I must make them do a two person scene. And we do get to that, but there's not, that's literally on my, in my perspective, the lowest priority, like I want them to be able to feel like they can create and play and Improv and they, they feel afraid to make mistakes and be silly in front of each other and make theatre fun so that way they get hooked into theatre as a whole. Not that they necessarily are going to go into it as a career, but they learned to have a love and appreciation for it. So then when we get to theatre two and three, four, then obviously we get more down to the nuts and bolts and more specific in terms of acting technique and methods and things like that. So that's Kinda been my approach with my intro level classes. Like we didn't even do like a memorized monologue or speech until December and that was a sonnet. They had to do a Shakespeare sonnett and they had to analyze it and tell me what it meant. And then they had to perform it memorized and it's not until now. I know this will probably make some teachers squirm, but like it wasn't even until like last month that we did like scenes, like from plays. So, but that was my theatre one approach. That's kind of how I've approached theatre one. You know, I've, I've, I always open my theatre one class with, I know you're not all going to be actors and I'm not here to force you to be actors, but when you're 30 something with your spouse and kids and you go see a play and you're like, oh, I remember Mr Culpepper Theatre Class. And that was fun. Then I feel like I've done my job. You know, that they've appreciated enough that they would take their family to go see theatre.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
I want to shift gears just a little bit and because I know I specifically worked with you on the board of the South Carolina Theatre Association. Um, and I believe you're the past president now.
HARRY CULPEPPER:
Yes. Yeah, only for a few more months. And then I am completely off the hook,
JIMMY CHRISMON:
But I, I wanted to talk to you about involvement in state and regional organizations cause I know that was a high priority for me and I personally got a lot out of those experiences. What would you say to teachers who are on the fence of getting involved or participating in those things?
HARRY CULPEPPER:
I would say there is no reason to not jump in and get involved. I know that it's scary and you worry about time and commitment, but you know you can, it's something that you will grow from as a person, as a teacher, as a professional. There's nothing more powerful than getting to network with other teachers, professionals that aren't in the classroom, and college professors. Um, you know, I've learned a lot about giving back to the art form and it kind of gave me a lot of passion in terms of the reason why I did it was because, uh, I, I didn't have a high school theatre program growing up and I was really committed to that mentality of I want to make sure that every school has some type of theatre program going on and they get to participate. And by serving in these state organizations, um, hopefully having a little bit of a hand in encouraging future programs and theatre teachers to get engaged and to bring their kids and to get involved other than just feeling like you're in your own little bubble. And that's the other thing is like so many times theatre teachers, you know, I'm lucky to be at our school, we have two teachers, but that's like a rarity. So getting involved in those organizations, you don't feel so isolated and you know, there's other teachers in your state and beyond that are going through the same challenges and struggles that you are and also want to cheer you on. And it's great validation to get that peer to peer networking that you get with those organizations.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
And you recently, Woodmont recently won an EDTA award for outstanding schools. Talk to me about that.
HARRY CULPEPPER:
Yeah, so it was, it was interesting. Somebody recommended us and uh, you have to fill out this application. They look at your current year's work in your past year's work and the type of productions you put on and the type of classes you offer and how many students are impacted and all of that. Really, we just like filled out the application thinking it was a shot in the dark and we were thrilled and honored to be one of the four schools honored this year. Um, two are in Washington state and I think one was in Kansas. Um, and basically what it is, is, is an award that recognizes commitment to high standards in Educational Theatre and advocacy within your school, your region, your state and beyond. So it was quite an honor and we're excited about that.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Congratulations. I know it's very well deserved. We're gonna shift gears again. I want to specifically talk to you about being an out gay teacher.
HARRY CULPEPPER:
Yeah.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
I don't think I've ever told you, but I think you are the first Out Gay teacher that I knew.
HARRY CULPEPPER:
Wow.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Um, I know there were, I knew I had gay teachers growing up and I knew, um, I know of some that I taught with, but I think at first when you told me when you moved to Woodmont and I remember, I believe you were texting me, are we specifically talked about it, that you, um, you were nervous about doing it, but you felt it was the right thing to do with your, I think your opening PowerPoint where you introduce yourself. Yeah. Um, and I know you're in a very conservative area of the country, so talk to me about what that was like for you.
HARRY CULPEPPER:
Wow. Okay. Whew. So I have to give a little backstory with that. Probably, you know, I spent eight years teaching elementary school and my principal then, um, you know, it was in Hilton Head, so like nobody in Hilton Head is from South Carolina. They're all from Pennsylvania and New Jersey, Ohio. So they obviously all are conservative but more progressive minded at that makes sense. Um, maybe politically conservative socially liberal is probably the best way to put it. And she basically encouraged, not encouraged me to stay closeted, but just kind of like, it was very like don't ask, don't tell. Right. Like just don't talk about it because you know, being a gay male and in the south and then elementary students on top of that. So I always had this fear, but I was there for so long. I got married in Hilton Head and so many parents knew and it was just kind of like, it was no big deal. Then when I got to the high school, when I moved up there, so many of the students I taught as elementary school students and I was like, I need to let these kids know, you know, I'm authentically me and I can't expect students to be authentic in my classroom if I'm not totally open and real with them. Like you know in theatre we ask them to get real personal. So how can I not ask them that if I'm not willing to go there myself. So my first year at Hilton Head I made this PowerPoint and I did not include Jeremy in it and some of the students who had known me from elementary school straight up called me out on it. They were like, why was he not in there? Or like we know he's your husband. And that really like took me aback and I was like, wow, like one I felt guilty cause then then I felt like I was trying to cover something up like it was wrong and we all know it's not. So from then on, I started printing that in my getting to know Mr. C PowerPoint and moving back home was a whole different story because yes, it's a rural community. I'm literally originally from a town that's not even 20 minutes down the road from my high school, which literally has two stoplights. Um, if that even gives you an idea of the type of community I grew up in and it was, you know, you, that was just not allowed. It's grown and changed a lot since then. But again, it was one of those things that it's kind of like now or never. And I felt like it was better to grab the bull by the horns and rather me just tell them than to have them speculate and talk about it in whispering, things like that. So, yeah,
JIMMY CHRISMON:
How did your students respond to that?
HARRY CULPEPPER:
You know, I think positively, I haven't heard any backlash from it. Um, a lot of kids have asked about Jeremy, you know, Jeremy has gone on quite a few of our trips and they probably love him more than they love me. It seems to be, which is great, you know. Um, it's always like, is Jeremy gonna come on, this trip is Jeremy going to come see the show? Um, so, you know, they'd been very loving and accepting and I think I've found that the ones that may not necessarily agree with it, they at least respect it for what it is. You know, it's like I said by, by covering it up or not talking about it, I create this, I would create a negativity or this taboo mentality about it and it's not. So I think by just putting it out there, the students respect that, appreciate that. That, and like I said, I think they, they, um, would much rather see Jeremy at rehearsals sometimes than me. So,
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Well, Jeremy is the life of all the parties.
HARRY CULPEPPER:
He is a lot of fun.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
I want to know a little bit more about your thoughts on just LGBT teachers with their students that may or may not be LGBT and the importance of visibility and representation in with what you do with your students.
HARRY CULPEPPER:
Right. You know, I think it's extremely important, like I said, for teachers to be authentic and especially in this school community. I've found so many especially, my male athletic type students have been like, oh, we didn't think you were gay. And so I come back with, well, why, like am I supposed to look a certain way? Am I supposed to talk a certain way? And they all, you know, plain and bluntly say yes, we thought that that's, you know, they, they think there's a stereotype. And so I think being honest and visible and open, um, I'm allowing them to understand that we do not all come in the same shape, size or anything like that. You know, there are stereotypes are just that and that they shouldn't be what we judge people by. And I have found that students, um, feel more comfortable talking to me about high school teenage things. Um, and they feel like they can ask me for advice or they ask me questions like, you know, like, what was it like getting married? Like was that allowed? And you know, just those, just those simple questions that we take for granted I think means so much to students and they can be able to just learn more about our world and understand that people aren't, don't have to fit in boxes. Like I think so many of us growing up in past years thought.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Well let's go down that road for a second. Cause whenever I had students come out to me and talk with me about that and, and even now in at ISU, when I've had students talk with me, I always feel like I always say it like the old gay man who, um, well back in my day it was this way. But I think, I think things have shifted so drastically since you and I were, um, their age. Um, can you talk to me about things that you've noticed that are different or even similar?
HARRY CULPEPPER:
Well, I mean, just the simple fact of like, you know, I wasn't out in high school, you know, um, and my partner Jeremy was, which blew my mind and we're only four years apart. I could have never come out in high school. And you know, when I was teaching elementary school, there was at that time a third grader who declared to the class, I'm gay guys. And I was like, oh, okay, we're going there, you know, and his parents knew, completely supportive and he's a successful ballet dancer in New York now. And so it's amazing to think how quickly things have changed. And I think also we, our preconceived notions and our experiences in high school. I feel sometimes I'd put that on those kids because sometimes they're like, oh yeah, I went out on a date and my parents like met him and, or met her.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
And I was like, wow. Really? Like, oh, okay. That that's, you know, and I'm still finding out that I'm shocked at how quickly things have changed or how tolerant and accepting people are. Even in my community. It's just amazing to see that kids accept kids more than I think we give them credit for. I think that's kind of where I was going with that is that I think sometimes we as adults and teachers may sometimes not on purpose, but we may put some roadblocks up that we don't even realize and kids see that and they're like, Duh, what's your problem? Like we've been okay with this. Like it's no big deal. And to me I'm like, oh my gosh, it's a big deal. You know? And it's really not and it shouldn't. What do you, can you tell me one or two of your favorite stories from your career? They can be funny stories, horror stories, ridiculous stories. Anything at all.
HARRY CULPEPPER:
Oh Gosh. Well, I think for me a meaningful moment was, you know, everybody knows those who know me know that I cry at the drop of a hat. So I'm a pretty emotional teacher, I think fo me last year was a pretty powerful moment when I had a parent come up to me to tell me about her daughter who, you know, I am big in terms of like production and teaching students to be storytellers themselves. When I block a show, I give very, very bare bones minimum blocking and I look at the actors and say, okay, so now what are you going to do? Like how are you going to make it work? And I'm not the approach of directing where I say, you take four steps here, you sit on this line, you put your arm here. And that works for some teachers and that's great, but that's not me. And this student was not used to that and apparently came home and like had this, vent session, Mr Culpepper doesn't tell us everything to do and I don't know what we're supposed to do. And he just tells us to tell the story and just be a storyteller. And I don't understand what that means. But that student figured it out. And the mother shared with that, shared that with me because that student talked all about that in her Julliard interview, which was really cool because she got in and her mother came to me and told me this in tears and then I started crying that, you know, it was just that the, I changed her mind about how theater can just be about storytelling and not putting on a show per se. Um, that was powerful. And a funny one was, I mean, I guess when I realized how much we as theatre teachers are not like normal classroom teacher, not that, I hate to say the word normal, but you know, we spend so much time with our kids in the classroom and then outside in production. And it, it a funny memory is back when I was leaving the elementary school to move up to the high school and we were selling all of our leftover concessions at the little arts integrated night that we had. And I literally remember it. I was like, so Will can't have these peanut m and m's. And literally the mother started busting out crying and she was like, nobody remembers that. He doesn't like peanut m and m's and he can't have him because he's allergic. And it's only because I spend so much time with them outside of class that I knew that.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
What do you, what do you see as the greatest need in your students right now and how can we as theatre teachers help them with that?
HARRY CULPEPPER:
I think empathy, 100% empathy and learning how to connect with other humans outside of these dang cell phones. Like, you know, I try and talk to my students about, you know, y'all spend so much time on these phones and you text each other and you snap each other and you have these Instagrams and FInstagrams and spam accounts and all that stuff and how important it is to just look at the other person and talk to them and understand where they're coming from and know that, you know, there's not, your side isn't the only side, you know, um, there's three sides to every story. You know, your side, their side and somewhere in the middle is what's real. And what's true and that theatre is a way to share that truth and really connect with each other and be sensitive to each other and appreciate one another and to love one another for your differences. One of my things that I stole from a dear friend of mine who's another teacher, Jed Dearybury, he always says love first, teach second, and I really try and push that in my classroom with my students that that's my approach on what everything we do is that we love first, then we teach them second because I don't think there's enough of that in our world right now and it's amazing if you just, even just talking about that, how much they realize, oh wait a minute. Like I didn't think of it that way or I didn't see it that way. Maybe I am wrong, you know, maybe I, maybe my perspective is not the only way and I think that's a major issue for our youth today and things that I tried to address and push in my classroom.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
I know you're a very busy man. How do you take care of yourself?
HARRY CULPEPPER:
Um, well for awhile I wasn't doing a very good job of that, um, to be honest. But since I, I basically had a health scare last spring, I have learned to like make time to get to work on my physical exercise and um, I took up running and literally only 30 minutes if that. So I run a lot, um, at least try and do it three days a week. And oddly enough, I don't do it with music. I do it in quiet and that I basically stole that from Susan Booth who was the artistic director at the Alliance Theatre in Atlanta. Um, when I was working on my masters program, we had to do this paper on leadership in the arts in the south and we had to interview movers and shakers in the southeast region and I got lucky and her assistant let me interview her and she told me about running and that she doesn't do, she doesn't listen to music, she doesn't listen to podcasts. She just listens to herself breathing. And so she can clear her head and flush out all the noise that we deal with. On the daily and that has probably been the best decision I made for myself was to do that, to make that move to at least spend 30 minutes if not longer every other day. So it can be walking. But yeah, that would probably be the number one thing that I've learned to do to take care of myself. And I gave up Coke zero, which that is a big deal cause I drink like six of those a day. Um, I gave it up for Lent and I have not looked back. So I would say just thinking about what I am doing to my body because that really affects us as teachers probably more than we realize. Like students have noticed. I've been more energetic, I've been a lot more cheerful if you will, in the classroom and they see that. So I think it's important that if you don't take time to take care of yourself, you're not going to be able to be your best self for your kids. And they know the difference. 100%
JIMMY CHRISMON:
I have just a few more questions for you.
HARRY CULPEPPER:
Yeah, yeah.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
The first two are going to be what I ask everybody on the, on the podcast and that is what is a resource that you are currently using or have used that we absolutely have to know about.
Speaker 5:
I don't know if y'all are familiar with that. You know, I spent a lot of time doing arts integration and spent a lot of time having to find ways to integrate theatre in different curriculum areas. Um, core content areas if you will. Although, you know, as we all know, the arts, are core, so I don't know if you're familiar with Artsedge, which is on the Kennedy Center's website where you can literally pull up lesson plans where you type in social studies a nine through 12, English or, and then tie it with theatre and they pull up all these lesson plans where you can find ideas to, um, integrate the arts into what they're learning in their other classes. That was a huge resource for me. I'm not sure if people, a lot of theater teachers know about that.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
And what would be your parting words of wisdom to new teachers entering this field?
Speaker 5:
I think if I had to look back on, you know, my struggles as a young teacher versus now don't worry about the product, focus on the process. I feel like so many young teachers feel this pressure to put on these productions on top of their class work. And we judge ourselves by that as artists. And that is so not what the kids care about. Like yes, a nice shiny product, flashy and pretty and all that at the end is nice. But if you ask kids what they really care about, they care about what they learned in the rehearsal process and their experiences in the classroom. So focus on process, not product, because at end of the day that's what they're heart remembers.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Yeah. That's so true. And then my final question for you, I'm going to go RuPaul on you here for a minute. Um,
HARRY CULPEPPER:
Okay.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Keeping with the theme with our pride episode here. Yes.
HARRY CULPEPPER:
Okay.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Looking back, what would you tell young closeted Harry? What would be those words to him?
HARRY CULPEPPER:
Wow. Yeah, you did make it RuPaul-ish. I've kinda got a lump in my throat. Shocker. I would say that you are going to be okay being you and people are gonna love you for being your real self and that you will get to be married to a guy and teach kids and they know it. And it doesn't matter that as long as you're true to yourself and you love everyone you meet, then you're going to be just fine. Yeah.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Well Harry, thank you so much for talking with me today. It's been forever since I've chatted with you, but I appreciate you joining me here on the show and um, I wish you all the best with the last couple of days of your year and thank you. Hope you get to relax some this summer.
HARRY CULPEPPER:
Oh yes, I plan on spending a lot of time by the pool as much as possible.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
There you go. So thank you so much for talking with me, Harry. I hope you enjoyed my chat with him. Um, my next interview is with Annaliisa Ahlman in Skokie, Illinois and Niles North High School. So I hope you get a lot out of what she and I had to talk about. Well, I am excited to welcome to THED Talks today. Um, Annaliisa Ahlman. She is a, she teaches many things at Niles North High School and I'm going to let her kind of fill you in on all of that. Um, and she is also the immediate past president of the Illinois High School Theater Festival, which is where I met her. Uh, so I'm going to let her, we'll, we'll get into a little bit about professional organizations as well. Um, but Annaliisa, if you want to just kind of introduce yourself, tell us a little bit about where you teach, how long you've been there, a little bit about your program and kind of your, your journey to where we are now.
ANNALIISA A.:
Sure. Well thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to chat with you today. Um, so a little bit about where I teach at Niles North. Um, it's in, uh, the suburb of Skokie, which is an inner ring suburb of Chicago. Um, it's a really fascinating place culturally. Um, it's a landing point for a number of new immigrant families. And so we have a really diverse student population. Um, and there's in terms of, um, race, ethnicity, language spoken at home as well as, um, socioeconomic status and gender expression and identity as well. Um, and with though like the support that is available to a lot of suburban schools. So it's a really fascinating place to work because we have a lot of things to be able to offer the students, um, and a rich, diverse environment for them to learn from each other and also for teachers to be able to learn from the kids as well. Um, and I did my student teaching there with Tim Ortman, um, who is now the fine arts department chair. To backtrack a little bit, I started my life as a musical theater performance major, which is how I came to be certified to teach so many different things. And so, um, this past year I was split between a few different departments at my school teaching dance through PE. Uh, which was a new endeavor for me this last year and to do that in a curricular setting, but teaching dance as well as theatre, English and a little bit of music. So I bounced around a little bit. Um, but it keeps things fresh and interesting and it's all, it's fascinating to see students in many different areas of the school and with different backgrounds, but all with an eye towards performance in towards what, what theatre education can, can bring to students or just looks a little bit different in different areas.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
How, how do you, cause I, when I taught, when I was in the classroom, I, I was very jealous of my peers across the building who had like one prep and if they had a second prep, they, their world was shattered and they didn't know what to do. And I'm like, I'm prepping five or six classes, what are you talking about? So I know we're not alone in that as far as the many hats that we wear. So how do you, how do you balance and how do you find a way to give each of those areas the appropriate attention that you need to?
ANNALIISA A.:
That's a great question. Um, I think that I didn't do it as successfully this last year as I would've liked, but I think I learned a lot. Um, I was teaching one semester, I was teaching four different preps, but they were also all in four different departments and disciplines. And so the stretch, you know, I think we're trained, especially in theatre we are trained for multiple levels of things. And so as you say, it's not unusual to have five preps, but you can see them throughout the day where you're beginning class leads to the next class and where kind of content wise that develops. And so that was something I didn't get this last year cause I was in so many different kinds of places. Um, and so I think one thing that really helped was because of the schedule during the day, I was able to sort of separate, uh, and, and kind of put things in drawers a little bit, so to speak. And so I could do like one thing and then really needed the prep period to like change my brain over right. To get to the next kind of content. And then so things were divided in a way that helped. Um, and so then it was a lot of making sure I was ready to go for the whole day before I walked in the building so that I could use that time in between, not just to feel like greater prep or meet with students, but use it to sort of get myself psyched into the next subject area.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Let's talk a little bit more about, about just your students in general. Uh, what do you, what do you see as the greatest need in your students right now and how, how can we as theatre teachers or dance teachers, music teachers and English teachers, how can we meet those needs of those students?
ANNALIISA A.:
That's a great question. I think that students are really, particularly in my school, are very aware of, um, of politics and events in the world. Um, but I think sometimes they feel like they're more aware than they really are. So in some ways there's a need for continual, um, recognition of student identities and backgrounds and experiences. Um, and we have a myriad of those at my school. But I think also it's about embracing the students who are there and also challenging them and challenging ourselves as educators to keep thinking about the folks that maybe we're not seeing or the people that we're not hearing about or um, to find ways to balance whatever dialogue is happening in the news cycle with considering other contributing factors or considering kind of what's missing from our curriculum. So I think that a lot of what students are bringing to the table is a self assuredness. And, uh, I think I see the students are much more articulate about their own identities at my school, at a younger age, I think than maybe I was as I was growing up. Um, and with that, with that self knowledge and that willingness to talk about themselves, I think then they need to know that they're not alone in whatever that identity is. Um, and that also there are supports in place to be able to continue to find oneself or to engage with other people who are similar or different from them in any respect.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Well, that provides a great segue for me to, to talk a little bit about your experience as an out queer teacher, um, and a little bit, a little bit about that representation, um, in the lives of those students as well as in the work that you do with them. So can you go a little bit into that for me?
ANNALIISA A.:
Sure. I think my, I've been on a big journey, I think, and I've been thinking about that a lot in the last like year or two especially. Um, in part because of some equity work that I've been doing at my school that comes from a place of, um, working for racial justice. But then by extension, looking at other areas in ways in which, um, I might have my own biases and how they might be challenged. And also in turn then how I can challenge my coworkers and colleagues, um, as well as students, uh, to continue some work in the equity area. And so I didn't start out as an out queer theatre educator. And that was a really tricky time. Um, actually when I was an Undergrad, so when I was at ISU, I had an education professor who basically told our class one day, uh, that if you had any sort of questionable lifestyle preferences was the way that she phrased it, that you better keep your opinions and ideas to yourself. And as much as I would like to say that I, I know the world is far away from that particular professor's viewpoint in some ways in particular with some things we hear on the news, it also seems like we're not that far away from it yet. And so it took a while, uh, for me to be comfortable being out at my school. And I think the first few generations of students that I had, you know, it was never a secret. I didn't like keep it very guarded, but also just wasn't clear. I didn't talk about my personal life. Um, which I think was led to a detriment, I think with some particular relationships with students who could've really benefited from that. And so I think where I am right now, I feel like the most, in some ways, the most radical thing that I can do, um, to be there for my students is to just be really clear and specific and honest about who I am and what my life is about. And the wonderful things that I'm able to bring to the table because of that. So trying to live unabashedly and truthfully myself at all times, um, I think is really important. And I think that that has really served to, uh, help support students who are coming out themselves or students who have, uh, queer parents or have a relative who identifies as LGBTQIA and maybe isn't familiar with another adult outside of that world. And so to be able to provide an example is something that I feel really good about and try to also hold hold in a kind of a special way that it's, it's unique and it seems to be really helpful and helpful for some kids to see that.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
I think our professors got together and talked about the same thing. Your professor and mine, in my early education classes cause I mean, cause I mean even still in North and South Carolina where I'm from, I mean it's, you can still be fired for it. Um, and I, I kept those words, they, they were always in my ears ringing loud and clear. I'm like, you, I, I never, um, I never lied to them. I never told them I wasn't. But at the same time they never asked specifically either. So I didn't feel like I was lying to my kids. Um, I knew they knew and they were fiercely protective of me throughout the rest of the building. Uh, but, but those words rung in my ears all the time. So I understand.
ANNALIISA A.:
And they still do. Yeah, they still do to this day. As much as I try to get away from them. But every once in a while it's like, oh yeah, that's still, that's still a concern. And I think it is like you're saying for many parts of the country. Uh, and we are lucky now in Illinois. I live in a state where, where that's protected. I think that thing is where I live and I work in a pretty progressive part of the state as well. And so there are additional protections, um, in my community and my school for that. But that wasn't the case in this state when I was in college. So it's only, you know, since 2006 approximately that, that that's been a protection that has existed. And so I think that that's definitely colored things and a lot of change has happened since then for the good. But we got a long way to go.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
We do. Um, can we shift gears just for a second and let's talk a little bit about, um, your involvement with the Illinois High School Theatre Festival. Um, and specifically I want to get into, cause I'm assuming, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, that that you believe teachers being involved in their professional organizations is important. Um, yeah. Why?
ANNALIISA A.:
Great question. Um, well I think specifically as theatre educators, um, or as art arts educators, we are often the only person in our building who does what we do, um, or, or one of very few. And so it's always nice and important and valuable to get outside of our own space and to, to be with other folks who also do what we do and also probably feel isolated or like they're always the ones, uh, responsible for, uh, for creating the thing or, or explaining the music or whatever it might be in their school. Um, so it's nice to have colleagues. I think it's important for that respect. I think it's also important for my students to see that there is more to an adult's career than just what happens in their building. I think the idea like when you're little and you think like surely my first grade teacher like lives in the classroom because that's where she is. And I think by the time they get to high school, the kids are like, oh yeah, of course you like live in a house somewhere. Um, but I think they don't always realize what is fully capable. And it's nice to see adults who they know and care about being able to create something for a larger audience than just the folks at their school. And I think that there's something else that really valuable in demonstrating and leading by example. Um, the idea of giving back and helping to create a wider community that we would like to see. So I think it's important for a number of levels. Um, and on a personal level it's fun. These are the folks who are working with the Illinois Theatre Association and the High School Theatre Festival, um, are some of my closest and dearest friends. And so it's also nice to be able to give back and to continue a relationship, um, that, that helped get me started a long time ago.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Can you, can you share any funny stories, horror stories, most meaningful moments that really stand out to you from your career so far?
ANNALIISA A.:
Sure. Well, I think one horror story, going back to being an out queer educator. So I was teaching a summer school class for struggling readers. Like it was a bridge program between middle school and high school. And this was um, before I, before I can't remember if it was before I was hired to teach full time or it was certainly before I was tenured. And so anyway, it was a summer program and we're reading the novel, Big Mouth and Ugly Girl and there's a character in it who is described as like short, spiky hair. And she is all about stating her opinion and I don't know that they necessarily assign a gender identity or expression and like they don't, I feel like they don't use the word lesbian, but basically they're describing this character who's somewhere LGBTQIA. Um, and the kids I was teaching were like very recent eighth graders at the time, so in summer, but they're still super young. And it was just the way that this group of boys were describing and talking about this character was so offensive and like also got to me on a really deep level of like, I immediately felt like I was in middle school again, like with these kids. Um, and had to really take a step back and figure out like, how do I address this in a way that supports everyone else in the room that doesn't totally turn off this group of kids from the next six weeks of instruction that I need to, you know, see through them and um, and what do I do? And so at this point, I don't remember exactly what I said, but I found some way where I just thought like, either this is going to be brilliant and it's going to work or like I'm going to be fired for what I'm about to say not that I actually would have been. But that was sort of the, the worry, right? That like either it's going to be awesome and I'll totally turn this thing around like, or it's just going to be really tragic and devastating and happy to say that it worked out. Um, but, but I think that that's those feelings are what can happen in a state or in a place where where people aren't comfortable. And so I'm happy to say that my community has come along way since then, but still there's, you know, kids who use slurs in the hallway or who challenge you on a personal level like in class. And it's difficult to find ways to address that. Let's see. In totally different example, like funny stories. I think I give people a lot of nicknames, like the way that I refer to kids. And so I don't have a specific one that's coming to mind now, but I know that that has proven to be then comedic when the kids try to refer to each other with the same nicknames that I might've given them and they, they don't work quite so well. Yeah. I can't think of anything else that's happened while teaching. I did have an epic experience with a tambourine and Grad School, um, where it was a, a new theater game or new to me. I got my master's in theater directing a couple of years ago. And so I was in class, my final summer of the program and we were in literary adaptation. And the task, it was basically like you're playing chicken but with tambourines and the crowd was cheering you on. And so the goal was to A. Entertain the crowd and B. Hit your partner's tambourine before they hit yours. So I didn't succeed in the B part, but I definitely entertain the crowd. Uh, and uh, also that resulted in me airing my ACL. So basically I shut the game down and nobody from my class to this day still knows like how you win the game because obviously I won. And the, uh, the administrator of our program, uh, Jerry Profit is, is like a dear father to like theatre teachers in the state of Illinois. Um, and he started in part with his colleagues, started the Illinois High School Theatre Festival so he had a long career as a theatre teacher. And then his second career was running this master's program and we get to like a walk in clinic, uh, not quite the ER hospital, but we get to this place and Jerry turns to me and he goes, well, in all my years teaching, I've never actually had to accompany anyone to the hospital before. I said, well, you're welcome. There's a first time for everything. And I'm an overachiever. What can I say?
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Oh my goodness. I, it was probably my second year of teaching, I was locking up the theater doors to leave for the day and I, I thought everybody was out and they were not, um, because I had two students just burst through the doors as I was locking it and like split my head wide open right here. Um, and it freaked them out because there was blood everywhere. And I was, I was very calm because I was like, I can't freak them out anymore. Um, and I said, I need you to get me paper towels. I need you to open these doors and you're both going to follow me in your car to the hospital to make sure I get there. Okay. And they were like, yeah, yeah, we got that. So that they've accompanied me to the hospital too, but I've never accompanied a kid. So that's, I can't say that I've done that. As far as when you, you entered teaching, thinking back to your first year, what do you, what do you wish your undergrad program, uh, was able to teach you that it couldn't? Like what, what was something that you wish you had known in that first year?
ANNALIISA A.:
That's a great question. I think that, well, I also like worked for a few years at the high school. I teach at now before I was teaching full time, so I had a lot of stuff going on. Like I was subbing during the day and then working in the theatre area after school. And so my first year of actual teaching was like my third year in the building or something. And so in some ways it felt like I was very used to kind of the rhythm and routine and I found that to be really helpful, um, because I already knew like who to go talk to. Um, and those kinds of first year things that like you don't know until you're in a new place doing it. Um, I think what would have been really useful was, um, I think content wise I feel like we didn't have a ton of experience with acting coaching, which is really like where you spend the bulk of your time as a theatre teacher. Um, and whether that's coaching like at the beginning level or coaching, you know, as students move into more advanced topics and styles or in the afterschool program, um, that's a lot of what you're doing. And I remember feeling really like I know I should be doing something here, but I don't know exactly what that is in a way to like articulate to the students what I was trying to get out of them. And so I felt really prepared in terms of how to teach a number of different things in terms of like how to build and structure and scaffold. But it was that nitty gritty of really how to do coaching. Um, that was kind of the biggest thing. I wish I would've known more of sooner. Um, so it was a lot like learning as you go. Right. And you figure it out. Um, in some ways I felt really prepared to, um, help build a season and be articulate in terms of like what might be useful or interesting for the community and the students. Um, and kind of see what kids needed I think.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
And has any of that changed over the last few years?
ANNALIISA A.:
Yeah, I think that they have continued to grow stronger. Um, I think we spent, we didn't spend a ton of time on this in my Undergrad, but I remember specifically some moments where we needed to sort of construct a, I think at the time probably we were calling them like a multicultural lesson plan. Right? And so of course now we'd approached that with, with some different language and different intention. Um, and I feel really lucky to be in a school that supports and encourages me as an educator to look at my own curriculum and figure out how I would like to, um, to, to better integrate different kinds of material into the curriculum. And so, um, I feel really grateful that I have the flexibility to do that. Um, but I think the ways in which we were encouraged in undergrad to sort of think about like, well, what would you do here and how would you explain that? That that was really helpful. And then of course has just continued to grow and blossom since then. And then, uh, getting a masters. Didn't hurt either. So.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Well, do you, do you find that your students are responding well to, to that, uh, to include incorporating, um, those diverse lenses into what you're doing and do you find them supportive of you?
ANNALIISA A.:
I do. Um, and I also get this sense knowing some folks you teach elsewhere, not that anyone is not supportive, but I do get the sense too that the specific student population that I have the pleasure of working with are particularly supportive and they seem also to, um, they seem aware that they have a really unique set up in terms of the kinds of students that they get to go to school with in terms of the sort of opportunities that adults are able to help provide them. And so there's also, uh, there's an interest in being challenged themselves and in challenging each other and in certainly in all of their challenging their teachers and the adults in the building. Um, and so yeah. I do find them to be really supportive. Um, one thing, to give you a more specific example, one thing I tried to do this past year or so, I've choreographed musicals in the past. Um, and I've done a lot of work with movement in the theatre, but I haven't taught until this past school year had not taught a dance class, like in the curricular part of school day. Um, and so as I was approaching this past school year, I was invited to more or less, like see what worked. And there were certain things that I needed to accomplish because it was a class through the physical education department. So like the kids still have to run and still have to do, meet other certain like strength or cardiovascular goals throughout the year. Um, but beyond that, the curriculum was really mine to reinvent, which was lovely. And one thing that was really important to me was not that the music choices or the artists or the particular style, I didn't want anything to feel like it was extra or like, this is the moment when we're going to do the piece written by this person of color. Or like, here's the moment where we're going to do this. And I didn't want it to feel like I was selecting different things. I wanted it to feel really seamless. And that was a goal I had going into the school year. Um, and so I actually polled my students at the end of the year and went back and listed, okay, these are the artists that we study. These are the choreographers that we've studied. Um, these are all the people in ballet who were not straight white men that we studied and like, here's, here's this list. And so, so I asked for their feedback to have like A. Did you notice that I was acknowledging these people's LGBTQIA identities throughout the year or did you notice that such and such was a cultural background or that, um, there was representation from different races. Um, and my hope actually it wasn't like they didn't notice that it just sort of like happened. Um, if that makes sense. Because I didn't want it to be something that was extra. I wanted it to really be, um, to be felt as, as fully represented. Um, so I got a lot of positive feedback from students and what I noticed, which is something I noticed from students in other ways as well, but then they're hungry for more. So I had a number of students who said like, I loved that you did such and such for these particular races, but could you have somebody next time who southeast Asian or I love that you did this. And also like what about this other thing? So once they get it, I find that students are really hungry for more. And I was thinking about that this past week we had taken a group of students to New York and we saw the musical, The Prom, which is my new favorite show. Uh, it's been on Spotify. I've been listening to it since we got home. And it had, it did such a nice job of including and representing a diverse story that I didn't have any role models like that as I was growing up. I wasn't able to see myself in standard musical theatre genre. Um, so to be able to have some main characters and to be telling their story, um, and yeah, it's, there weren't gender nonconforming students represented in the show. There were actors of color, but not necessarily in positions where like the leads didn't need to all be white. Does that make sense? So like, and my students noticed that too, that like they loved how diverse and representative it was and also like, but then why isn't it the next step? Like, so it's, there's a hunger, there's an eagerness for what I am doing in the classroom. Um, and also they really want more, which is a good challenge
JIMMY CHRISMON:
I think. I think that's very important. Thank you for saying it. Because my undergrads right now, I, I think I beat it into them. Um, that the diversity is not a one off lesson, um, that it's, it's, it's woven into the culture of everything that you do and it's a conscious decision on your part as the educator to make those choices. Um, whether or not the kids see it or not like, but like, you know, like you said going at the end and getting their feedback on that and then realizing, oh wow, you really did do this. Can we step it up and do this next year? So I, I appreciate you saying that cause it validates my words to my students right now too. Um,
ANNALIISA A.:
oh good
JIMMY CHRISMON:
It does, I know you are super busy, especially with this last year, um, with being president of theatre fest and, and teaching 20,000 different things a day. Um, how do, how do you take care of yourself emotionally and physically to keep wanting to come to work to everyday?
ANNALIISA A.:
That's a great question. Um, the, I think summers are a big part of that as well as breaks and, um, we have a number of summer offerings at my school and it's, I see the need and it's difficult to say no, I'm so sorry. I'm not able to teach that summer school class or to do this other project. And believe me, I've also got plenty of curricular things I'm working on this summer and, and continuing in an official capacity in a number of ways. Um, but one thing that I'm doing this summer as well is I was, um, I auditioned and was accepted to a training program for adults and dance in the city at my home dance studio. Um, and so that's something that like, will of course be useful as I enter next school year and working on my own classes. But really it's, it's just for me like it's Nice frosting on the cake that I'll be able to use it for classes. Um, but it's really a thing that in some ways feels a little bit selfish that I'm devoting all this time to it. And that also feels really good and useful and necessary. Um, so I think remembering that we have really hard jobs is important because I think that especially in education, especially in the arts, we are, we're trained to say yes, we're trained to collaborate, we're rewarded for doing more and for, uh, working really hard and we need to remember that we're working really hard. Um, and, and taking the time to take care of ourselves I think is really critical. And so in parts, um, you know, allowing myself when I am able to sit back and relax, uh, to remember to take time to do that and that it's not a selfish act to stay home on the couch or to make plans that aren't work related and that can be really challenging at times. But I do my best to do that. And also finding ways to actively practice mindfulness is really important for me. So whether that's going to a yoga class or whether that's just the way that I can turn my brain on or off for or switch it into a different kind of gear in dance class or just taking my dog for a walk and leaving the cell phone at home so that the next 10 minutes are about, you know, my dog, the trees, the neighborhood and not a whole lot else though.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Yeah. My husband and I recently have, uh, decided to, to eat better and to get our bodies moving. And we have loved doing that over the last two weeks. And I was actually thinking on our way home from the gym this morning. Uh, that, you know, it, it's, there's always something that's going to take our time and, and if we don't create that time for ourselves, something is going to take it away. Um, and to be fiercely protective of that time is super important.
ANNALIISA A.:
And I think also, um, I remember, and, uh, I know I have a lot of friends who, who say similar things from, uh, we didn't all go to the same college but have had the similar experience where we remember, you know, that one professor or whoever it was, who the students adored. But we also like never quite knew how that person might've like managed to survive as a human, right? But like for whatever reason, like somebody who was like always like taking a nap before they went into her solar, you know, who would seem to be there at all hours. And almost finding like that we worried about these adults in some ways as undergraduates. And so part of it too is that I'd like to be a good role model for my students, that we can't create life on stage unless we know what that life is like on our own. And so it's important I think to have the balance for our own self care but also to also demonstrate that it's important that you need a day off every once in awhile and that that's okay.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
I have just a couple more questions for you and then I will let you get to your evening. The first one is what is a resource that you are currently using that other theatre teachers need to know about?
ANNALIISA A.:
I've got a couple. So, um, American Theatre Magazine is a godsend. It's, I think in Britain they have a number of different components and it's nice to stay in touch with what is happening on a professional level nationwide. Um, and they also print articles and, and include resources to things that somebody might not be finding on their own. And so I always find something that I maybe had heard about but didn't know enough about and then can read up on or find something that's totally new to me. Um, and it's really useful. I think also, I spend a lot of time on Howlround this website. Um, and they are an open source, um, online resource. And so again, lots of articles, videos, things that are happening, uh, nationally and internationally. And I think that they also do a really good job of presenting and sharing diverse experiences in storytelling. And so to be able to find, um, find a different perspective from my own or find, um, a, a different kind of theater craft or story or play or a perspective or artist that I might not have already known about that they're a good resource as well.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Yeah. Uh, one of my other guests, uh, Briandaniel Oglesby we were talking about before I started to interview, um, his, his experience and kind of, he chronicled his process of creating a, the Romeo and Juliet on Howlround. So, um, oh, awesome. Yeah. So he'll be on a later episode talking about Romeo and Juliet a little bit more, but thank you for mentioning that. What are your parting words of wisdom to new teachers coming into this field?
ANNALIISA A.:
Our lives are long and I think that our paths can take many directions and you might end up somewhere where you didn't expect it. But there is in my experience a huge amount of, um, of beauty, of interest, of challenging and really captivating experiences along the way. And so the, I think one of the biggest things that I can say is going back to an Improv right? And saying yes and that you may find a door that opens that you weren't anticipating, but there might be a really great things on the other side. And so continuing to take in all that's available to you I think can help provide a really interesting lasting experience in this field.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
And my final question, I am going to go a little RuPaul on you right now. What as, as a successful, as a happy, as, um, uh, I'm just, I'm getting very successful out queer teacher. Um, what would you say to young Annaliisa?
ANNALIISA A.:
nI would say it gets better. I would say you are enough, you are valued, you will find happiness. And something that was said to me by somebody else but when I was a young Queer Annaliisa was this too shall pass. And that has been a mantra that has stuck with me in difficult times that when things are challenging knowing that there is a brighter day, that there is a tomorrow. Um, and that there are resources and support and love to get you there.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Well Annaliisa, thank you so much for talking with me today. I really, really appreciate it and thank you. I hope somebody gets something out of what we talked about today because I did and if they don't, shame on them.
ANNALIISA A.:
Well I hope so too. This is really been a pleasure. Thanks so much Jimmy. Thank you.
JIMMY CHRISMON:
Well I want to thank my guests, Harry Culpepper and on Annaliisa Ahlman for joining me for this special episode. of THED Talks, the pride edition episode one, there are two more episodes coming up, so please make sure you do check those out. I wanted to also just make the caveat that these two teachers are um, in a very special situation where they are completely supported by their, not only their spouses and their own personal convictions, but also by their students, parents and administration. So if you are a teacher who is LGBTQIA that you, you don't owe it to anyone to come out if you do not feel safe, if you do not feel supported and if you do not feel that the environment that you are in with the community, your school, school board, school district, whatever, um, is not supportive of that you remember, you, you need to do what's safe for you and what's right for you. But there are still things that you can do to provide, to provide those different lenses of diversity for your students. So just keep that in mind. And uh, I remember coming out is your own personal decision. It's your own personal journey and you get to direct that. Thank you so much for listening to this first episode. I do hope you tune in for the next two. Please check out www.thedtalks.com to get all of our transcripts, archives of all of our episodes as well as the resource lists from all the teachers. Go onto your favorite podcast provider and subscribe to the show, rate it, review it, and definitely share that podcast with those theatre teachers and theatre students who you think could benefit from what I'm from, what I'm doing here. You can find THED Talks on Apple Podcasts, on iTunes, Google Podcasts, Google Play, Spotify, Stitcher, Anypod and Tunein. You can always contact me at thedtalkspodcast@gmail.com if you'd like to give me some feedback or uh, provide topics that you'd like to hear on the show. Or if you want to be a guest, please reach out to me. That's thedtalkspodcast@gmail.com. You can find us on all your social media, on Twitter @theatreddtalks on Tumblr thedtalks.tumbler.com find us on Facebook at THED Talks, Instagram thedtalkspodcast and of course once again www.thedtalks.com for those of you active on social media, you will have seen that I've posted something called our listener survey. If you would please take a moment to fill that out. If you have not done that already, I would love your feedback on continuing to improve the podcast. I do listen, I do pay attention and I do work to incorporate the things that you want to hear as well as your feedback to continue to make this better. So those of you who have done that, thank you. For those of you who haven't, please go on and take just a couple minutes to do that. It's a quick, simple Google form and I will be very grateful. Thank you Joel Hamlin and Joshua Shusterman for the use of your original song "Magnetize" that you hear in the show. I appreciate that you guys and uh, thank you for listening. I hope you got something out of this episode and I do hope you get something out of the next couple ones and finding some bits of knowledge and advice that you can use in your classrooms. Thank you again, and I do hope you have a wonderful week.
